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05/16/2011 12:48 PM

Muscle Aches and Weakness Anyone???

jennk123
Posts: 4
New Member

Hello there!

I was diagnosed with mono around 3 months ago. My main symptoms were muscle aches and pains and weakness. I was extremely worried before going to the doctors because I could barely stand for more than 30 minutes, and my knees and elbows ached terribly. I felt the need to stretch out my legs several times a day. I never experienced a sore throat, and even my fatigue was not severe. I slept a little more than usual, but I barely noticed. I figured it was college wearing on me. But after the doctor, (and my blood tests) confirmed it was mono I felt much less worried, hoping for a recovery soon. I gradually began to feel better with less aches, although I was still not physically up to my standards.

But now, it has been around 3 months and I am beginning to have aches and pains again. My left arm hurt so badly the other day, but only for a few hours. It seems to travel between all of my limbs. I am weak, I can hardly stand for long periods of time. even typing on my laptop right now is bothering my arm. I am just so tired of complaining to my family and friends. I need someone who understands how awful this is! Has anyone else had muscle aches and general pain with their mono? I would love to hear how it was for you or how you dealt with it.

Thanks so much! Smile

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05/17/2011 05:09 PM
Dave78
Posts: 167
Member

Hi JennK123,

Well, I think I have some idea of what in my opinion has caused the muscle pain. In my experience my body would just ache and hurt even on days that I had a fair amount of energy. I tend to believe it is lactic acid being trapped in the muscles causing the pain. Eventually as the mono progressed (for me) more and more resources were used to fight the infection and that put more strain on the body to generate energy, in laymans terms. This caused lactic acid to be stuck in the muscles. I never found another explanation for it. For more information you can look up the cori cycle and krebs cycle and get an idea of how lactic acid is converted back to glucose and the affect of oxygenated blood that can help convert the lactic acid out of the muscles thru atp generation from the krebs cycle. In terms of exercise, not that you feel up to it, possibly getting some aerobic exercise to get your heart rate up and clear some of the lactic acid out may help. I know for me if I do any anareobic exercise like lifting weights I have to do cardio or it just knocks me down for atleast a day. I've blogged about alot of things that I feel have happened to me. Getting a vitamin deficiency along the way possible multiple vitamin deficiencies and trying to deal with that. Eventually as my illness progressed my body just ran out of minerals and things just shut down. It doesn't sound like this is going on with you but the stress of having an infection like this can deplete your body and shift things biochemicallly. In my case doctors just didn't find anything. The best advice I can give you is be proactive and try and research what is going on with you and experiment until something works. I got gastritis and that effected the way my body digests food. Many proton pump inhibitors (such as prilosec) shut off pumps to prevent stomach acid from being excreted. This will effect the way you process your food and can lead to a vitamin deficiency. Without digested food reaching the intestines then processes become inefficient. The protein that transports b12 needs the food to be digested in order to reach the vitamin. So. One thing can effect another and another.

On your rough days when you know you are going to have to exert energy and there is no way 0out of it. I find that taking SuperOxide Dimutase (for me 400-500 Mcchord Units worked fine) really took some of the edge off and made things tolerable. Just not as much muscle pain after exertion.

There are supplements that I would recommend. Fish oil, phosphatidyl Choline, acetyl l carnitine, selenium, coq10, magnesium, biotin, folinic or methylfolate. Vitamin b12.

The puzzling thing about these vitamin deficiencies is supplementing and then testing while supplementing can lead to erroneous results. So, for me personally. I tested fine for b12 and folic acid. One of the things that helped me the most for almost 2 years was eating a beef patty. I had peripheral neuropathy in my opinion. My arms and legs would always have a crawling and tingling sensation. That would get better when I ate beef patties. I feel the same way when I take 400 mcg of metafolin and an active form of b12. Either adenosyl cobalamin or methyl cobalamin. One problem that has occured for others that have gotten mono including myself is methylation cycles can be effected. This is a huge topic for people with chronic fatigue syndrome and their methylation pathways have been affected. So atleast supporting with folate and an active form of b12 should be done imho. To get a better grasp on the biology of what may be going on you can visit the site called www.medicalinsider.com. Also the cfs website called pheonix rising cfs. And check out some of their forums. There's loads of information there and more treatments that may help you. I can give you feedback on things that happened to me when I started to add certain vitamins and how it made me feel. I need to say everyone's body is different and often times will react differently on occasion. as far as what I think would help you I think it should be a broad approach that just tries support everything. Taking antiviral foods such as garlic will help your immune system. Eating healthy and getting all of your basic food groups. I shyed away from milk a long time ago but do eat cheese. There is something called Kefir that I have read has really strong probiotic qualities. Olive leaf extract is a strong antiviral. If you do eat a beef patty and it makes you feel alot better like your body was craving it then I would suggest you add active forms of b12 and folate. That has helped me the best in that area. All of this is a good start!Hope it helps.

David


05/18/2011 05:32 PM
Dave78
Posts: 167
Member

Hey, I just read part of your diary and you mentioned having muscle twitches. That could be caused from having low magnesium. Magnesium contributes to I think it is 300 different enzymes in the body. But it's really important. The best form I found was magnesium glycinate. Swanson Vitamins have reasonable prices. Also Iherb.com should have it aswell. I had a zinc and magnesium deficiency to my suprise. Even after supplementing them because I learned how important they were. I take between 400-600 mg per day of magnesium glycinate. Maybe taking 100-200 mg per day could help with the muscle twitches. Also, I never took magnesium with calcium because my calcium levels always came back o.k. If you drink lots of milk or eat cheeses then you may not need to supplement the calcium.

Yeah, about supplementing vitamin b12. A famous researcher on the cfs website prefers people to take hydroxocobalamin so that their bodies can dictate how much needs to be converted to adenosylcobalamin and methylcobalamin. That might just be a safer approach. Or supporting with adenosylcobalamin will allow your body to convert the amount of methylcobalamin needed and not overramp the methylation cycle. Rich and Fredd are both two extremely educated men that have different views on the methylation cycle and their protocols are different when it co0mes to supporting it. They talk about it on the cfs website. Also wrong diagnosis has a long thread on b12 as well. Forgot to mention that.

David


05/18/2011 06:24 PM
jennk123
Posts: 4
New Member

Thank you so much for all your information! I actually do feel better when I eat red meat sometimes, almost stronger, and it seems I ache less. I will do some researching on these vitamins and their effect on the body. I must admit, I am not educated on them at all. I always assumed a multi-vitamin would give me everything I needed, but it would seem I am wrong! I have been taking fish oil, after reading a post by you about the immune boost it gives. So currently I am taking fish oil and a multi-vitamin every day. Also some Acetyl L-carnetine and billberry.

Thanks again, I will see how it works out!!

Jenn


05/19/2011 06:42 PM
Dave78
Posts: 167
Member

Yeah. I don't know if its right to diagnose a vitamin deficiency, b12 deficiency just from the way eating red meat makes you feel. There are alot of good things that red meats offer besides b12. It has zinc, iron, provides proteins/amino acids to help produce antibodies, cholesterol for hormones and if eaten with vegetables can help the nutrients from the salad be absorbed better. For me taking metafolin and b12 felt exactly the same as eating a beef patty. My arms and legs would feel lighter, the crawling sensations would lighten up and there wouldnt' be as much tingling. I would also have more energy. I don't know if you have any of that. Peripheral neuropathy is associated with b12 deficiency. Either way since your body is really stressed it is probably a good idea to supplement with b12 anyways. Take care.

David


06/12/2011 11:23 PM
Dave78
Posts: 167
Member

Has the b12 helped at all?? I have stopped eating so much red meats at the advice of my doctor and those pains in my legs got worse. Sometimes it wakes me up. So, I have increased my dosage of b12. It helps but it needs to be replenished alot. Plus it just seems to tweak my biochemistry in ways that I don't really understand. Like, I take more b12 and then I feel like I have taken more antidepressants. But, that means the methylation cycle should be working better. Also, one thing about overramping the methylation cycle is that it can effect the transulfuration pathway, glutathione and the ability to detox.. I dont' know. I haven't been feeling all that well lately and just tired and really confused.. But, I hope the b12 helped and your are feeling better!!!

David


06/12/2011 11:25 PM
Dave78
Posts: 167
Member


06/14/2011 03:11 PM
Dave78
Posts: 167
Member

Well, it sounds like i have already been down a similiar path you are heading. I had, well I had two pains in my abdomen. One was the spleen on the left side. It felt swollen, kind of like you had a full stomach except I didn't eat anything. That started about 6 weeks after I first got mono. That pain eventually went away after 5-6 months which was about the time my right side starting feeling swollen. The swelling was high in the abdomen, quite possibly was the liver.. But, slowly that pain migrated to the lower to middle part of my right abdomen. And pretty much just stayed there. I would always ask about it and I would get the same response... It's my liver dealing with macrophages or it's because my immune system is revved up type answers. Not until the pain was lower when I happened to ask and that doctor basically said it was too far away from the liver to be causing the pain. I went to a gastroenterologist and had an upper endoscopy done which basically was a tube they sticked down my throat with a camera attached to a device that would take a biopsy. They checked for h. pylori, said that i had diverticulosis and gastritis.

There are a couple of reasons why I am not happy with getting the tests done and the treatment in response. One is the cost. With a very good insurance I paid 300-400 dollars for a CT scan. This scan was a done by a radiologist where I drank a slightly radioactive solution that I assume gave a virtual display of my abdomen. Possibly gastritis was the finding.. I went back to the gi doc and he wanted an upper endoscopy done. That was another 400-500 dollars out of my pocket that i had to spend. Later I came to find out they billed $7,000 dollars to the insurance company. Which looking back is all he was interetsed in anyways. For probably a 30 minute procedure.. So, I get the results... negative for H. pylori while having gastritis and diverticulitis and no stomach ulcers. So what did he perscribe me for all of this... prilosec otc.. 1 pill per day.

Now the second reason i am not happy with the treatment. Prilosec is a proton pump inhibitor (ppi) and turns off the acidic pumps in your stomach. There are big consequences to this.. First their theory is taking the ppi will decrease the acidity in the stomach and the inflammation will go down. That's all they are trying to do. A larger consequence to this is; allowing undigested food to enter your small intestine and later your large intestine. Allowing normal and abnormal bacteria to flourish inside your intestine which will lead to candida which has been linked to chronic fatigue. From what I have read having the small intestine being alkaline is what we should strive for and having the large intestine acidic is best. Having an acidic large intestine prohibits bacterial growth there. But, nevertheless, undigested food passes thru the small intestine then the large intestine and then you have abnormal flora problems to worry about. Candida is the major one to look out for and taking the ppi's is a perfect way to get it. There are many different forms of gastritis: bacterial, viral, stressed induced which I was assuming what mine was. (They didn't tell me.)

What my advice would be first would be to try and supplement with glutamine. That has been shown to increase cell production in the stomach amoung other cells. It is a treatment for leaky gut syndrome. From what I've read it has been helpful in healing ulcers too.

I can't say if you have the h. pylori bacteria or not. I can't really say if you have stomach ulcers or h. pylori but I think your best option is to try and treat these conditions with supplements. You may have a form of gastritis. Can I ask where the pain is in your abdomen. Does it migrate between the lower and mid part of your abdomen on the right side? If it is gastritis and the inflammation is caused by stress well because you are dealing with this infection it is pretty much impossible not to be stressed. So, it may stick around for a while until you get healthier and handle stress better. One thing I wanted to mention if I didn't already is that without your food being properly digested, which if you take the ppi it won't. It's very easy to become b12 deficient. The food needs to be digested fully in order for intrinsic factor to carry the b12 and transport it. So, without the food being digested the b12 isn't accessible. This may be problematic for you because you were complaining about crawling sensations in your legs. Possibly periphial neuropathy which can be caused from a lack of b12. Were you able to take any b12. Please don't take the cynaocobalamin for of b12. It is coupled with cyanide which for normal healthy people they can probably detox it well enough. But for people already struggling why put your system thru it. Upon recommendation from my doctor I stopped eating so much red meat and the neuropathy ended up getting worse. So, I am taking quite a bit of vitamin b12.. namely adenosyl cobalamin and that is working out o.k. But, I have to take some probably every 30 minutes to an hour to keep my stores up. Trying to get the shots right now. But the b12 is definitely helping. And don't put this off. Vitamin b12, well methylcobalamin (b12) is a vital component of the methlylation cycle and that can be effected if your body is really struggling. If the methylation cycle shuts down it is a chronic condition until the cycle can be started again with the correct supplements. In the meantime your body isn't able to detox itself properly and it just accumulates toxins. I was fortunate to come across an article written Dr. Rich Van Konynenburg that explained the theories behind it very well. And your best approach I guess to try without worry about overdriving any biochemical pathways is hydroxycobalamin. The only spot I was able to find some was holistic health in the solution form. But this is probably the most safest but may not be the most effective for you. It does very little to help with the crawling feelings in my legs and adenosyl and methylcobalamin seem to help much more.

But as far as the gastritis thing is concerned I would atleast give glutamine a try and realize it may not work the best because your condition could be caused by stress. I think mine is and it more than likely won't go away completely until the stress is removed. Also in my experience the prilosec didn't do anything except caused a possibly candida infection which I am trying to address. Like I said my life will be stressful until I get more healthy. As long as my stomach lining stays healthy despite the inflammation is what I'm hoping for. Taking probiotics and things just to make sure things your intestines are healthy is a good idea. The best thing I responded to was drinking Kefir. Also glutamine is the precursor to Gaba and most places I have read it acts to calm people down. But maybe a form of glutamine causes an excitatory effect. But, just wanted to throw that in there. It really hasn't seemed to effect me one way or the other too much. But, just wanted to mention it. Here are some articles to check out. I hope it helps!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastritis

http://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/natural_gaba.html

http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.aspx?Id=2844

http://www.nutritional-supplement-educational-centre.com/ benefits-of-l-glutamine.html

http://www.healthmedicalarticles.com/treat-helicobacter- pylori-naturally/


06/16/2011 06:56 AM
jennk123
Posts: 4
New Member

David,

I have not tried a form of b12 by itself yet, but I have been meaning to get some to try. I feel I am getting better slowly though. If not better, then I am not getting worse.

And the problem I had with the diagnosis of stomach ulcers was that I have no stomach pain. I told him of my muscle aches and he "read" me and believes I have ulcers that are causing my muscles to tighten and cramp. I am not sure how the two are related, but because I have heard remarkable things about this doctor I decided to try the vitamins he gave me. He prescribed them for 60 days, however, and I have only been taking the aloe vera for about 3 weeks. So I am going to finish it out.

I am sorry you have not been feeling well lately, I certainly hope it all gets better soon for you. I think a key for your health recovery may be to reduce your anxiety and stress. I do realize that the two are connected to your current health problems, but I find that when I am having a good time around people that make me laugh I often forget about any pain that might be occurring, or it does not seem as bad. I truly hope you find peace soon. You have helped me very much, and I appreciate that!

-Jenn


06/21/2011 03:30 PM
Dave78
Posts: 167
Member

Hey Jenn,

Well thanks. I am happy that you are improving or atleast not getting worse. I just kind of get suspicious when doctors use their own intuition to prescribe things. I am just biased from running all the tests. I hope you are improving with it and it isn't expensive. You actually have lots of options though still aside from some of those things. The Kefir helps me alot, the glutamine and vitamin b12. It doesn't sound like you have the neuropathy much anymore and that is really good. If you are still struggling though supplementing with it is a good idea. It seems glutathione becomes depleted due to oxidative stress if I'm not mistaken which leads to a depletion of b12 because of toxins and that can effect the methylation cycle. But, there are alot of people who are chronically sick that have abnormalities with their methylation cycle. It wouldnt' hurt to supplement with a small amount in my opinion. I am glad you are turning the curve so to speak and hopefully things will only get better. Getting mono is hard because if those biochemical pathways do get affected it is really confusing to try to sort out which supplements to take and how much to take essentially by feel. Lots of people get genetic tests to see if they are born with genetic variances that predisposition them to having weak essentially links within those pathways, so they can know what supplements to take so they can strengthen them. Atleast they get a general idea of what supplements they would need because of their genes. So, but yeah. My brother came back to town so he and I are cruisin around. So, thats nice. If the neuropathy comes back or isn't going away give the b12 a try. Yeah, well there isn't too much activity here anymore. That's o.k. I just want to atleast give some guidance for others so they will atleast have more resources to get better. Life is too short. So, yeah. I hope you continue to get better!

David

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