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04/28/2008 01:42 PM

MMS based upon bad science

fin24

to give this its own post--and to shorten a bit the other posts on MMS--this is very dangerous and ample warnings are necessary.This is an excerpt from posts Ive had to post on many sites over the past few days to protect others fom harm!!

Its just a FEW of the things showing that the entire basis for MMS is faulty--more can be found at www.lymeneteurope.org under unconventional medicine:

the following statements are just a few that are found on the MMS site and/or purported by others to "explain" how and why MMS works yet it is plain "bad science" --my degrees in developmental bio and the decades spent teaching pre-med and nursing students as well as even more years as a Science ed consultant compels me to refute the following:

1.- false statement: only "bad" microbes are 'negatively' charged and/or pathogens cant survive alkaline environments..

we must not be content to repeat what we have heard or seen written by those selling anything. ANY intro level microbio text will tell you that the following DEADLY pathogens exist and thrive in alkaline environments: enterococcus, erysipelous bacteria, listeria and yes even fungus like aspergillus which has become deadly to many. therefore stating only 'good' bacteria are alkaline is FALSE- also, ingesting an alkaline will make these pathogens more likely to cause harm, NOT "kill" them.

-According to experiments by Weichselbaum et al " when gastric fluids become alkaline microbes do NOT lose their pathogenic properties"...

-also the info re : oxygen and microbes--there are plenty of microbes you DONT want harmed by the increased oxygen thats supposedly occurring and still more "bad" ones left UNharmed--meanwhile NO proof any changes in oxygen are occurring from MMS

-2. False statement:Good bacteria cant be harmed-- what about GOOD bacteria that thrive in ACID environments ( almost all of the probiotics like lactobacillus). What is ingesting an alkaline doing to THEM??? while many cant make it past stomach acids, some DO and others do well in the slightly less acid but NOT alkaline GI tract, beyond the stomach, as well. if ANY bacteria or viruses are harmed, so too will the "good" bacteria.

3. False statement- harmless salts form, making this not toxic-well salts ARE forming BUT the falsesness lies in their usefulness-and that theyr not toxic- the common salt thats forming?? mostly right in the gut .hence the nausea- any scientific evidence that ANY of the active CLO2 stuff thats making you so nauseated getting anywhere into the blood??? I have seen NONE.very likely the stomach acids are neutralizing the CLO2

The mammal body is pretty good at keeping things where they belong, why would such a toxic substance as ClO2 be allowed to get into the blood at high enough quantity? Id love to SEE blood and intracellular levels of ClO2 after ingesting this stuff

so too, after it gets into blood (if again it does) Id like to see the proof of its ability to get into the RBC--the membrane system makes it difficult at best for larger and unfamiliar molecules to simply cross the barrier membranes.

4. False statement- the CLO2 deposits onto stomach walls where it enters the body like other nutrients--well first off nutrients leave the gut via small intestines NOT the stomach, secondly the acids in the stomach would react with the CLO2 anyway.and make those SALTS long before it leaves the stomach--add HCL to your solutions and see what happens! even they say to NOT add Vit c- ascorbic ACID for that reason

5. False statement--if you have nothing in the body below acid level/Ph7 there are no ill effects--ummm what about the acids in the stomach?? and what about those good bacteria- ACIDophilus etc??there ARE things in the body below that level and theyre necessary for health too

FYI HEALTHY microbes like lactobacillus require Ph range of 5.8-6.6 ACIDIC and

some pathogens like clostridium do well at 6.0-7.6--that is, they thrive even with alkaline environs!!

this CONTRADICTS the basis for the cure.

when in a state of health human body is slightly ACIDIC

while blood is usally slightly alkaline at 7.4 ( arteries) and 7.3 (veins)

Urine Ph norms = 6.0

saliva Ph norma 6.0-7.4 and vary so widely it cannot be used to measure the entire body's Ph levels

there are individual variations so that within a small range we each have optimum levels depending upon diet and genetics and other factors.

6. False statement--no chlorine is involved--that chlorine like odor when you mix it??? chlorine!! OR clo2-dioxide- IF its chlorine dioxide??? still poison-matter of fact if you inhale the fumes you will be inhaling chlorine or chlorine dioxide gas and may well end up needing medical attention!Many sites suggest drinking without inhaling fumes--does that alarm anyone??

7. false statement- ingesting MMS causes Ph changes of the entire body/blood to occur--no one has shown this to happen.

- in any case, any PH changes that may occur, are very quickly rebalanced in the body,and kept within very strict levels ( different for various tissues etc) UNLESS one is so ill as to be unable and then they face a probable DEADLY outcome. Theres a reason why saliva and blood are slightly alkaline and urine acid...why would anyone think playing around with this balance is GOOD???

- except in presence of some very specific illnesses, you cannot change one's cellular Ph safely. Have you seen people in acidosis or alkalosis?? I have...not pretty. tiny changes that dont upset the natural balance also dont do much of anything for invaders...they too "like" the same margins of Ph our cells do.

8. false statement--the nasuea/vomiting, diarrhea means a good thing--pathogens and toxins are leaving the body-maybe even a "herx"

if you ingest enough 'common salt' or salt water you will also vomit etc...like I advised to those doing the Salt/Vit c cure this too has very big risks. BUT this is NOT proof of a Herx!! or of healing or even detoxing--its your body screaming " hey stop that"

Not all negative symptom results can be called detox or even "herxes" regardless of whats causing them. that term has become way to loosely used and why we often have trouble getting other trained professionals to listen to us when a real Herx ( or other event poorly adopted) happens

FYI as for pathogens and changing Ph-as far back as the "Principles of Surgery" by Nicholas Seim it was well known that altering the stomach's acidity by making it alkaline will actually PRESERVE the virulence of pathogens and make the patient MORE likely to get deadly SEPSIS!! ingesting a strong alkaline is NOT therefore a 'good' thing. it will allow pathogens in the GI tract to become stronger and even to be passed further into one's body.

- saying chlorine dioxide is safe because we produce tiny amounts of it is patently silly. even WATER becomes toxic at high amounts. and anyone can look up 'chlorine dioxide' to see that its quite a dangerous substance. Citing its uses is like my saying that at one time ARSENIC was used quite successfully against spirochetes specifically syphilis. well, who here would want to ingest arsenic??

and yes it IS used as a surface disinfectant--one of the best in the world--but would you drink Lysol??? and it IS used in water (like swim pools and bad drinking water) BUT its allowed to dissipate and at different quantities in drinking water.

9. False statement- Malaria has been cured in Malawi and Uganda--[and now they claim Kenya too]

-I have intimate knowledge of the malaria situation in Africa due to my daughter ( grad student of anthropology who unfortunately for my gray hair travels out of this country a LOT). and I can unequivocably say that NO cure for malaria has been done there on any large scale IF AT ALL. Hundreds are STILL dying in hospitals from resistant parasites. I have a BIG problem with advertising 'cures' when I know them to be less than truthful.

if they 'fudge' or exaggerate in one area then how can I believe the rest of the claims. I personally emailed the Ministers of Health of Malawi and Uganda and to this date None have been willing to say that anyone there used/uses MMS and that ANYONE has been cured of Malaria with it. Youd think theyd be bragging over their superiority if this happened. Id like to see PROOF from anyone of this happening as per the MMS website

now claims that 75000 prisoners on Malawi cured Malaria--well in all of Malawi there are 28 prisons and a total of 11000 prisoners--and not all have Malaria--so where are the 75,000???

10. false statement-resistance to this ( if it works as a killer) cant happen-

RESISTANCE can and does build whenever ANY microbe killer is used. period. IF it can even get into the blood or cell-This ClO2 cannot and does not instantly kill every last "bad" microbe all at once...IF it did why then do you need it for so long?????

the microbes that are NOT killed are very quickly reproducing and those survivors are passing along their genetic know-how to get STRONGER. For the same reasons antibiotics are a big cause of the resistant bacteria we now face, taking ANY killer will do the SAME.using anything that puts pressure on another living thing to adapt will cause genetic changes ( mutationally or simply gradually with reproduction). ALL living things have one prime directive : survive and reproduce--and they will find a way to do so.

and it doesnt take much time either--a few hundred generation with some microbes---and that can occur fast--some microbes have a generation every few hrs.

Im guessing that with some more time I can even find for you microbes that lap up chlorine. many thought for so long nothing can grow with high methane- WRONG, high sulfur or temperatures-WRONG.nothing can grow in Ice- wrong- turns out that there is LIFE adapted to very last environment on Earth. And some are pathogenic in every area.

11. people are being cured--well maybe they ARE and maybe not--but not from this--from what? placebo effect perhaps ( at what cost or risk), perhaps by other stuff theyve done previously--after all many who try this have failed many times on previous treatments...maybe all they needed was healing time.Almost ALL who claim to be better on MMS have done previous or at the same time other treatments!!!

and yet they have sx so they keep taking it--makes no sense

and what of the folks on it over a YEAR??? where is their CURE??? and to what long term effects??

Conclusion

am I therefore saying no one should use this or any other supposed miracle cure??? NO -its not for ME to say that. BUT when we are exhorting others to take the same risks we must be VERY sure we have given them ALL of the correct information and not putting OTHERS in harms way!

what I AM saying is that we must be much more careful about our "facts" and only then can we EACH decide in a fully informed manner which risks we each are willing to take. Id be happy to admit any errors on my part if you provide the substantiation.

and please dont compare to Rx drugs companies--when they dont tell us all the neg effects its as bad!! having information means WE become educated about the possible risks--whether its an RX drug or MMS--and when there are blatant false statements and bad science--we all have to stop and ask WHY

Im also pretty sure that if any of the so called miracle cures out there really are a global for-all cure, then we would all be "cured" . the fact that there are so many of us still ill proves to me that as yet it doesnt exists. Unfortunately for many illnesses, the individualness of the situation makes it that much LESS likely of a cure for all. so far all "universal" cure all havent stood the test of time.

IF any of you are truly feeling better after doing ANY cure, then may G-d Bless and may you continue to heal. BUT that doesnt mean that for others itd be a safe or healthy decision to do something so risky, especially blinded by the advice and what Ive read so far on this and other sites.

. we have to be willing to embrace facts even if theyre contrary to what you 'believe' or have 'heard' or seen as written by those wanting to sell their products.

Denying the WHOLE truth about ANY new cure-all ( and ALL things have good and bad about them) does no one any good.the people losing kidneys after doing Salt/C and many others terribly ill on other regimens are now being blocked and booted off many sites for sharing their experiences--'too negative' , 'cant be true' are the reasons. Is this what we want??

before simply accepting anything

first understand the basic science behind unbelievable claims, then investigate motive and if the inventor understands the good and bad effects and finally balance the risks with benefits--and IF at the outset many lies/exaggerations are told and the science is all wrong ask youselves--HOW can anything thats said then be trusted??

and thats one of many reasons why the Drs without Borders and the WHO etc arent going anywhere near this MMS!!! too much is so very wrong they cant possibly take anything else seriously

and forget conspiracies---there are far MORE incentives ( monetary included) for any African nation to declare theyre cured Malaria!!!! and that cute little stunt on the MMS site stating poor Jim Humble is feared for his life??? marketing gimmick folks--right off the pages of several internet marketing classes!!!

be careful out there and QUESTION for Petes sake

and stay away from MMS unless you can understand ALL of the very real dangerous risks and youre willing to take them!!!

Finette

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04/28/2008 04:59 PM
goldfinch

Very well written Finette. I'm no rocket scientist but I wouldn't touch that stuff with a ten foot pole. Friends, please don't jeopardize your health even more by looking for a miracle cure for Lyme disease. No miracle cure exists. If it did, we certainly would not be on this forum searching for answers.
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05/06/2008 10:15 AM
Lynn44
 
Posts: 4
Member

I've had chronic lyme for over 30 years, while anti-biotics really knocked it back; I still have some symptoms (pain in lower back and knees, stiffness and brain fog). I just tried MMS for the first time last week. So far, I've taken it twice (one drop each time) and so far, ALL of my remaining Lyme symptoms are completely gone! THIS IS THE BEST STUFF IN THE WORLD! I'm not going to continue taking it for much longer, as others due, since my symptoms aren't as severe as others. While it is a poison, so is EVERY prescription drug on the market. Just read the enclosure you receive with your prescription. Everyone is VERY scary. Even one of the most popular blood pressure med is made from poisonous snake venom from a snake in South America!
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05/06/2008 10:25 AM
Clayton72
Clayton72  
Posts: 508
Member

My thoughts exactly, Lynn! Doctors are poisoning us everyday with medicines, chemo, etc.

I think doctors are doing so much damage to our bodies - it scares me. You should see the damage that Lyme did to my organs - a doctor would have just damaged them further if I had let them.

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05/06/2008 04:11 PM
lymie
ConnieD  
Posts: 808
Member

Go Lynn! That's great that it helped you. Do you know any other people that have taken it, too and how are they doing?

Connie

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05/06/2008 04:35 PM
Lynn44
 
Posts: 4
Member

I discovered MMS on the lymestrategies Yahoo discussion group. Quite a few members have taken it for much longer than I have and there's much successful feedback discussed within the group. You may want to check it out.
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05/07/2008 05:51 AM
jaime1978
jaime1978  
Posts: 2399
VIP Member
I'm an Advocate

I'm torn on the subject here. Fin, you have great valid info on this...when I first heard about it, my gut insticnt was no way.

I'm glad some people have had sucess with it, that's great....and it is true that our meds are poison itself. I think we all need to be careful what we put into our bodies. And it's good to have all viewpoints on the subject, thanks for everyone's input

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05/19/2008 09:26 PM
fin24

well, we have to make our own decisions but Id rather take the posions I can investigate and learn about instead of ones where they dont allow you to report negative experiences--lymestrategies will edit and delete all posts stating neg experiences with whatever their members happen to be selling--a BIG conflict of interest there IMHO

then there are the false claims etc--as well as the suspect behavior of the so called inventor Jim Humble.

the ones claiming to have good response have already done other things and it may be those things that helped but took time and it can be the placebo effect as well.

You cant say " well if it helps why cant they take it" when the substance is so toxic and poisonous hence dangerous; without full knowledge

yes chemo used in cancer is toxic but its striclty supervised and you know what risks youre taking and its a matter of dying from cancer vs taking a chance--this isnt the same thing with MMS--you DONT know all the info about it and you dont know what risks you take and there is NO supervision either and there ARE alternatives--its not a matter of take MMS vs dying from Lyme!!

and saying we can be poisoned by Drs and drugs too so why not take more poisons is as silly as saying " theyre already polluting our world so big deal lets spray more pesticides"-- you cant support a dangerous medical action by stating that other things are dangerous too

besides, lysol and bleach are disinfectants of a similar type to the MMS--would you swallow those???

Im glad you feel the MMS after just 2 drops helped you --did you know even Humble states you need to take more and for longer?? even he says just a few doses CANT help anyone?? he has a whole protocol of working up to 10-15 drops for effects to be there!!

and the one drop--how long did it sit there?? if more than a few seconds almost ALL of the dioxide was evaporated--what MAY have helped you was the citric acid left behind..or maybe increasing your fluids too.

and feeling bgetter is wonderful news!!! but its no basis to recommend it to anyone else considreing the dangers

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05/19/2008 09:44 PM
Lynn44
 
Posts: 4
Member

You most certainly can compare taking one dangerous substance with another. Everything is dangerous in a high enough quantity - even water. I'm still feeling great after two drops! Actually, the best I've felt in years! If taking a couple of drops of "poison" can make me feel this good (for whatever reason), then you bet I'm going to take it and I'll tell anyone who wants to know. Have you taken it? If not, then I don't believe you are qualified to state your opinion. In my case, I had the choice of trying this "poison" or trying an even worse prescription drug with very serious stated "Black Box" side effects. Those were my only two alternatives. I'm glad I didn't listen to the likes of you and stayed away from something that has been so helpful with NO side effects, in the amount taken. BTW, why are you sooo against something that has helped people soooo much? What's your motive? Why do you OVERLY care? What's up with you? Who are you, really??!!
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05/20/2008 09:29 AM
lymie
ConnieD  
Posts: 808
Member

Thanks for sharing Lynn! I am so glad you are feeling better. If I wasn't already feeling better, I would research that myself. I took the alternative route. I was sick and tired of all that junk I took while I was midiagnosed as 'only ' having FM. Conventional medicine failed me. My docs would have just kept on prescribing more and more drugs to control my symptoms of "FM". They couldn't even diagnose me properly. I was lucky that the doc who finally correctly diagnosed me, also treated me successfully.

Connie

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