Lyme Disease Support Group

Anyway I m sure I would wholeheartedly disagree with a lot of your political views pete, but hey you know what ? I totally am glad you can have them and the right to believe them in this country, too bad the same cant be said of this site lately. As far as the internet I guess I may be a bit off base on that one, I just tend to find more liberal stuff in searches lately... personally I dont want any biased news, I want both sides of the issue to help me be better informed.

PS. sure wish I could have read that sentence that was apparently so inflammatory, something based on recent experience here tells me it wasnt all that horrible.

Im a Ron Paul supporter as he's one of the only uncorrupted politician and supports the constitution 100% and wants to have an open society like america used to have.

FOX news and CNN are propaganda machines and are both highly bias, they even changed the poll data on the debates to make it show Ron Paul lost but really he won!

Oh and don't confuse ron as a republican most republicans disagree with his views but he's running as a republican instead of an independent as he will stand more chance of winning!

Allow The Free Market, Not The Fed, To Set Interest Rates and he wants to audit the federal reserve to see how much gold there really is in fort nox.

Anyway this is a lyme disease forum so i think we shouldn't go too off-topic here.

Post edited by: Madz, at: 06/20/2011 08:27 AM

Students so often associate socialism with authoritarianism as if a democratic nation cannot choose to adopt socialistic principles (as evidenced in western europe today). This mistake is unfortunately the product of being indoctrinated with the idea that socialism=Stalin=evil... but then again, was not Hitler a capitalist (I disagree with his placement to the left on the chart... it's an amateur chart with some mistakes)? Fascism is based on the merger of state and corporate power (as Mussolini so eloquently stated) and is indeed a form of authoritarian capitalism...

So you can have democracy and socialism, so long as that is what the people want. I will include some pictures to represent this 4 quadrant method of looking at politics/economics. It's a much better system than thinking there are only 2 options.

espltd,

I have a feeling that we might agree a lot on the social system... I lean far towards the libertarian side (on everything except the economy... it is too big and the elites too greedy and short-sighted to be unregulated). I think we disagree profoundly on the economic side, as you noticed... (On the charts I am in the Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich area... probably not too far from old Marx himself... )

Maybe now you can see what I mean by saying both political parties lean right... favoring capitalism over socialism... Notice FDR is the only US president not on the right side (capitalist) quadrant. He's also one of my favorite presidents...

Madz,

I agree with you on the same front. I support many of Paul's libertarian ideas, but differ economically... I like that he is not shy about his beliefs. I also agree that the left and right are both bought and paid for by corporations and the elite, who WILL NOT regulate themselves for the good of society... Notice a few old-school presidents are in that lower-right quadrant (Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln... I intentionally ignore Reagan... (He killed way too many innocents in the middle east and central america for my taste...). I agree with them in the sense that they wanted to extend more rights/freedoms to people (i.e. libertarianism), but they were overly capitalist for my taste.

This also brings up another important point... It is vital that we not romanticize the past and desire some move backwards to an idealistic society... No such society existed. Which "open" society would you move back to? The one with slavery, or the one with segregation? Neither option is good, eh? As stated above, I feel the economy is too big, and people too greedy/short-sighted to be completely "free" (unregulated)... even Adam Smith might agree... see my old quote from another discussion in my next post...

bottom line:

Seeing as corporations/elites own something like 95+% of the assets in this country, and now we are treating corporations as people and letting them donate unlimited sums to political campaigns, how are we supposed to protect the other 95+% of people holding less than 5% of the wealth... what chance do we have against that machine? We're all doomed!

I think Barney Frank put it best when we pointed out that the top 150 people in the country own more than the bottom 150,000,000 (almost half the US!)... They didn't get there by playing fair and working for the good of society... loopholes, subjugation, offshore banking (as mentioned), and other canniving practices led to this imbalance; an imbalance greater than that of the Gilded Age that preceded and led to the Great Depression... Need we repeat history (that idea really is more than a cliche, eh?)?? Reagan's trickle down... well it really is a trickle... and it's not money, it's piss!

I've enjoyed our chat guys (and wasted a perfectly good hour... nice to have the summer off!)

Post edited by: spiropete, at: 06/20/2011 01:34 PM

quoted from another discussion... Poor Adam Smith's ideas get abused all the time:

"If/When our society grows up, people up top will realize that really investing in people's well being, even if that means making small sacrifices, will benefit our society as a whole... including a healthy happy workforce instead of our current national system... that system being, we borrow money from china which we use to buy stuff from china... they lend that money back to us and we spend it again... Like a kid with a credit card.

We need regulation... it's either regulation or the destruction of our economy by the same short-sighted individuals whose best interest would be to actually fix our economy... they don't even realize (or don't care) that they are creating their own destruction... It's all about money in the passing present.

I notice that one person has tried to rescue Adam Smith from the perversions his philosophy has suffered at the hands of modern day capitalists. He was a liberal in his time in the sense that he supported change (a free market which he assumed would include investment in ones own country, because by protecting the interest of the nation, (s)he was also assuring her/his own success... and thus acting in her/his own self interest simultaneously...), rather than tradition (monarchs controlling the economy for their own benefit, and unregulated mercantilism that bred colonialism, the subjugation of native people, and a lack of jobs at home that led to civil unrest and social problems... sound familiar??).

This new era of "free trade" could be a good thing were it something other than the "We feel free to take advantage of you" mentality and the unrestrained drive for profit by corporations even when it endangers all parties involved (unemployed people at home, near slave laborers overseas, and even the CEOs themselves, as their day of reckoning approaches... can't use imaginary money for ever folks...)

One thing I've noticed is that those speaking in defense of reform seem to back their positions up with valid ideas, allusions from history, and a logical foundation... Those speaking against reform just seem to be supporting a system that has proven a failure... seems the harder position to defend, which might be why you barely try ... I'm always down for a debate.

Maybe one day we will work together in a truly collaborative effort, but only when a general paradigm shift takes place that would seriously rattle our worldview and create a culture unlike anything every fully realized in this nation... we have made many steps increasing liberty and equality, but we aren't done yet.

As people become more and more willing sacrifice a little luxury for others basic needs, we will continue to move in the right direction and maybe, eventually, we can do this on a global scale to save our race from the primordial drives residing in the archaic parts of our minds that don't always lead us in a direction of increased peace and understanding of one another, but rather steer us in directions temporarily rewarding or satisfying but at what cost?

Cheers."

At least now this is not a wasted thread... we've got some good stuff here. Just because it's a Lyme forum doesn't mean we can't have a little fun with politics.

Post edited by: spiropete, at: 06/20/2011 12:08 PM

deleted italysis which i can't read, bettyg, leader

Post edited by: Bettyg, at: 01/07/2012 01:49 AM

Listen, we all have been let down by SO many people in our 3d lives who just "don't get it" and we search for support sites to find what we DON"T have in our lives. So we don't need to come here to be put down by others who should understand the totally messed up situations we are in.

I am still quite unclear as to what transpired right before I came back, I have been jumping right back into PM's and doc requests and been spending MUCH time doing that. Trying to raise a young family while sick and help others. Kind of what most of us are doing.

So basically we really are just trying to calm things down around here.

It's a SUPPORT site. I'll be making a post tomorrow after I can think a little more clearly on the wording on everything.... but a support site , basically equals, support and finding information from others in your situation...the bonus is that you end up making some amazing friendships you never thought would happen. There's PLENTY of other site for the drama and flame wars, it's just flat out not tolerated here.

We all have a bigger fight to fight, lets ban together and do it!

Love and light,

jaime

I am tired and just need help. I am in Texas and my hubby and I both need treatment we have had nothing for awhile not and it is not pretty.

Please tell me how to get someone on here to talk to me

I understand the no tolerance thing....I really do.....but free speech is VERY important to me, and to others here...

AND, luckily, things have calmed down....yes, things did get a little tense for a few posts, but apologies were made, and things are back on track, it seems!

I am glad that the people here can put aside their differences in opinion and share in an open discussion! I love debates and hearing both arguments!

I have been following these posts carefully, and noticed that spiropete apologized, and even edited his original post to reflect such...

It is so difficult to balance the emotions that come along with lyme and co, and outbursts here are a part of life, I suppose, considering the fragile emotional state of us all.

I just want to take this opportunity to say thank you to everyone involved here for turning this into a pleasant debate and sharing of opinions! Kudos to those who were humbled by the experience, and it looks like some new friendships were formed!

I hope everyone is doing well, and if not, I hope the day will come for each and every one of you! No one should suffer so relentlessly, and we do need to lean on each other for support. I know my lyme friends understand SO much better than those who are healthy.

Thanks again, everyone! Love and hugs to you all!

betty