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12/13/2008 10:35 AM

Pronlonged ABX Treatment Chronic Lyme No Success


I Dont want to get you abx users all depressed but take this to your LLMD's and ask them their Opinion.Seems a new class of antibiotic has to be developed to finally cure Lyme.This is not good news 080401095233.htm


12/13/2008 12:15 PM

Don't worry, that kind of news won't make any long term antibiotic user depressed, esp. not me. Smile

And the doctors that are knowledgeable enough to treat with long term abx have known for a LONG time that a new class of abx needs to be 'discovered'.

As do all the knowledgeable Lymies.

So it's not new news! Been around for a LONG time.

But--- Bayh-Dole Act took the funding away from most private researchers. Leaving the funding to be awarded to universities (US Davis for one, see below)who are waiting to develop the 'new abx' so that THEY can patent it and make oodles of money---- at which time they'll all of a sudden 'discover' that long term abx DOES work! Laughing THEIR antibiotic, not anyone else's.

That's type of false information (in the article) has been passed around for years and just lately given another boost by the infamous 2006 IDSA Guidelines.

It makes us MAD (not depressed) but we know what they're saying is the Party Line and has no basis in fact.

The article given said:

There has been minimal scientific evidence to support the claim that infection with the Lyme disease bacterium can persist in a chronic state following antibiotic treatment.

LOL----- they obviously didn't read ALL the literature. In fact, the IDSA consistently leaves out any study that was done in Europe---- instead publishing citation from themselves, fer cryin' out loud. Laughing

And they quote themselves in their citations. LOL

The term 'cherry-picking' comes to mind. Smile

At the end of the article was only this hint of where this 'opinion piece' came from---- and it's very telling:

Adapted from materials provided by University of California - Davis.

That says it all. University funding for biomedical research comes from the CDC and the NIH----in line with the IDSA.

Why would they publish anything that might get their funding jerked away from them?

For anyone still reading thing (Smile) just read both sides and not just one article by a very biased article.

ScienceDaily is just another media mouthpiece---- they just use bigger words than USADaily. Smile

And more interesting subjects.

Here's what wiki says about them, and I second it wholeheartedly:

The articles are selected from news releases submitted by universities and other research institutions.

Some have criticized the site's refusal to provide links to the specific release on which each article is based, and its decision to list instead the home page of the institution responsible for the release--a practice that makes it difficult for researchers and interested laymen to cite and consult the actual scientific paper discussed.

Interesting web site. But isn't a valuable research tool.

12/13/2008 03:40 PM
Posts: 290

Totally agree with's all corrupt! Can't people see things...falling and failing in every industry!


12/14/2008 01:34 AM

Have to agree with ID and Cave, not upset at all. I recently heard Dr. Barthold speak and he was incredibly interesting. Here's part of the article that was actually from the UC Davis study. When he speaks of some of the Bb still hiding from abx, he is speaking of the cyst form. On this forum, the difficulty of getting rid of that form of the bacteria has been discussed before. This clears the way for more research. Yeah!

Barthold and colleagues studied antibiotic treatments for Borrelia burgdorferi infection in laboratory mice.

One group of mice was treated for one month with the antibiotic ceftriaxone, beginning during the first three weeks of infection. A second group received the same antibiotic for one month, but beginning at four months after infection, representing a chronic infection. A third group, serving as the control, received only saline for one month, rather than the antibiotic.

When the antibiotic treatments were completed, DNA analysis showed that small numbers of the Lyme disease-causing bacteria remained in the tissues of the antibiotic-treated mice. Ticks allowed to feed on these infected mice were also able to acquire and transmit the infectious bacteria. Curiously, despite the apparent viability of the bacteria, they could not be detected by standard laboratory cultures.

The findings support the theory that the bacteria remain viable and that some bacteria evade antibiotic treatment by taking refuge in collagen-rich tissues, skin, ligaments and tendons.

"Our theory is that these remaining bacteria are in a metabolically dormant, non-dividing state," Barthold said. "This would explain why we were unable to culture them.


While the residual bacteria do not appear to cause disease, they may contribute to the persistence of Lyme disease symptoms, the researchers suggested.


Bacteria have evolved the means to survive antibiotics in the natural world, he noted. Furthermore, if disease-causing organisms such as Borrelia have evolved the means to escape clearance by the immune system, it is not surprising that the bacteria that survive antibiotic treatment would not be eliminated.

"I suspect that if the initial round of antibiotics hasn't eliminated them, it's not likely that a longer regimen of antibiotics would be any more successful," Barthold said. "It's more likely that a completely different class of antibiotics would be needed to accomplish that. This laboratory mouse model will allow us to address those possibilities."

12/14/2008 06:05 AM
Posts: 2399
VIP Member
I'm an Advocate

amen to that!

12/14/2008 07:42 AM

"It's more likely that a completely different class of antibiotics would be needed to accomplish that. This laboratory mouse model will allow us to address those possibilities."

And for that, funding is needed. See above. Smile

Until then----- the llmds do the best they can.

So far though, after more than a decade of reading the Lyme forums----- if there hasn't been thousands of double-blinded, controlled studies to prove persistence of Lyme----- there are thousands (more I'm sure) of people who have attained a very good level of remission with the use of long term abx. has a list of actual studies that show persistence.

12/14/2008 11:11 AM


I agree and I know quite a few who have been able to go on with life thourgh abx as do you. I'm so thankful for what we do have and how much progress we've made!

And, to quote Jaime, "Amen!"


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