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11/18/2008 11:28 AM

What does elevated C4a tell?

AngelaS
Posts: 7
Member

I am on a seemingly never ending search for answers at this point...and am so thankful to have found this group. Well...I am on a cholesytramine/actos protocal but c4 level has gone from 9500 to 28,500. Is this indicative of lyme and severity?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Angela S.

Reply

11/18/2008 03:00 PM
cave76

Vol. 146, No. 3, 2008

Free Abstract

Original Paper

Complement Split Products C3a and C4a Are Early Markers of Acute Lyme Disease in Tick Bite Patients in the United States

Ritchie C. Shoemaker, Patricia C. Giclas, Chris Crowder, Dennis House, M. Michael Glovsky

a Center for Research on Biotoxin Associated Illnesses, Pocomoke, Md.,

b Pediatrics Department, Allergy and Immunology Division, National Jewish Medical and Research Center and NJC Clinical Reference Laboratories, Denver, Colo.,

c Department of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics, University of California Irvine, Irvine, Calif., and

d Department of Immunology, Quest Diagnostics Nichols Institute, San Juan Capistrano, Calif., USA

Address of Corresponding Author

Int Arch Allergy Immunol 2008;146:255-261 (DOI: 10.1159/000116362)

Abstract

Background: Current laboratory markers do not readily detect acute Lyme disease.

We assessed the utility of complement and its split products as markers of Lyme disease in patients shortly after a tick bite.

Methods: Thirty-one consecutive acute Lyme disease patients, 14 with and 17 without erythema migrans (EM) skin rash, seen by a physician within 96 h of a tick bite were matched with 24 consecutive tick bite patients without Lyme disease symptoms and 46 healthy control subjects.

Complement and split products measured included factor B, Bb, C4, C3c, C3ades Arg, C4ades Arg, C1q- and C3d-containing immune complexes, and C2.

Results: C2, C4, C3 and factor B levels were within normal ranges in all groups. C3a and C4a levels were significantly higher in acute Lyme disease patients than in tick bite and healthy control groups (both p < 0.001).

All acute Lyme disease patients, regardless of EM, had elevated levels of C3a or C4a.

Few tick bite controls had elevated levels of C3a (2/20) or C4a (5/24) and only 1 of the healthy control subjects had elevated C3a (0/46) or C4a (1/32).

Conclusions: These findings suggest that C3a and C4a may be useful markers of Lyme disease in patients seen shortly after tick bite, even in those without EM.

Copyright © 2008 S. Karger AG, Basel

Author Contacts

Correspondence to: Dr. Michael Glovsky

960 East Green Street

Pasadena, CA 91106 (USA)

Tel. +1 626 793 6680, Fax +1 626 793 0664

E-Mail yksvolg@caltech.edu

goto top of page Article Information

This study was presented in abstract form at the 27th Symposium of the Collegium Internationale Allergologicum, Malta, May, 2006.

Received: December 7, 2006

Accepted after revision: November 20, 2007

Published online: February 13, 200

[cave note: A well known llmd in CA has been doing that test, collecting data.]

Post edited by: Bettyg, at: 01/16/2012 02:19 AM


11/18/2008 04:30 PM
AngelaS
Posts: 7
Member

Thank you so much for the great abstract that directly addressed my question. I appreciate it greatly!

Angela


05/08/2011 11:40 AM
jamescoury
jamescouryPosts: 7
New Member

High C4a is usually indicative of either lyme disease or toxic mold illness. If you have lyme disease, you should also have high C3a. If only C4a is high, and C3a is normal, you most likely are sick from mold. Check out www.survivingmold.com.

11/29/2011 02:47 AM
mlccc2
mlccc2  
Posts: 441
Member

Angela, Are you any better? What have you done to bring down your C4a level? My C4a results returned at over 71,000 and I have to admit I've never felt so bad in my life! Doctor thinks it's Lyme but as I read more online blogs it's looking more like mold.

01/16/2012 12:07 AM
mlccc2
mlccc2  
Posts: 441
Member

Anyone have any idea why my C4a blood test results fluctuate? Is C4a an indicator of Lyme disease or mold exposure?

8-1-2011 19,097

8-24-2011 73,350 (done twice in one month)

9-21-2011 13,155

12-7-2011 54,637


01/16/2012 01:23 AM
jamescoury
jamescouryPosts: 7
New Member

C4a is an indicator of "inflammation."

It can be high in people with cancer, an auto-immune disease, Lyme disease, mold illness, other microbial infections, etc.

C4a alone cannot determine Lyme vs. mold.

I've had both Lyme and mold illness in the past 10 years.

Have you been bitten by a tick? If so, when?

What are your symptoms at first?

What were your symptoms that developed later on?

What are your symptoms now?

Where do you live?

What are the 5-10 most frequently visited buildings you spend time in during the week?

Do you have any other blood test results on these dates you mention?

Have you had a Lyme test? If so, what bands read as "reactive?"

I can help you at least makes sense of the labs, and try to help you put your symptoms together based on your exposure history.

Do yourself the favor of creating an excel spreadsheet with symptoms organized by date...

Year

Where you were living

Where you were working

Symptoms you were having

Post edited by: Bettyg, at: 01/16/2012 02:20 AM


01/16/2012 01:47 AM
jamescoury
jamescouryPosts: 7
New Member

Here are some more resources on C4a.

What this tells me is...

> C4a is an inflammatory response marker. Meaning it is elevated when acute inflammation is present. Inflammation is usually a natural response of the immune system fighting something off.

> In Lyme patients measured shortly after a tick bite, C4a OR C3a will be high.

I also know that if C4a is really elevated along with TGF-B1, while MSH, leptin, and VEGF are low, then you should suspect mold.

P.S. Do yourself this favor. Mold is EVERYWHERE that moisture + dust is. So basically every single building in the world is subject to molds (specifically the ones that thrive indoors) replicating, becoming airborne, entering your nose / mouth, and causing an inflammatory response in your body.

To be thorough, I'd also look in to a CD-57, a Lyme PCR, and even get live blood slides looked at.

The only real way to know if you have Lyme vs. mold is to see the organism in your blood under a microscope.

All of the tests are just shortcuts to save patients money and make it possible to quickly diagnose. They are just lab tests though. Labs will always be limited in some way.

Labs can make mistakes. Labs can be very vague.

The reason the Lyme western blot is not conclusive of Lyme is that several of the bands that react or "inconclusive."

This means that they are reacting, but it is not specific to Lyme.

So it could be Lyme, or it could be something else that this particular strand reacts to. It checks for antibody presence.

Some of the strands on the Lyme test are "specific" to Lyme meaning that they only react to Lyme specifically.

That makes diagnosis easy. So absence of these specific bands is not absence of Lyme, but presence of specific bands plus symptoms equals a conclusive Lyme diagnosis.

My conclusion after months of asking "what does elevated C4a mean?"

Well in short it means you have inflammation, and need more labs, symptoms, exposure history to determine what is actually causing it.

If you have high C4a, you definitely will have other labs that are elevated or lowered. C4a is part of the complementary immune system. Think chain reaction.

It's just one piece of the puzzle, but a good sign that you should be very focused, very persistent, and very determined to get an accurate diagnosis and appropriate treatment until it is normal and you feel better.

Complement split products C3a and C4a are reportedly elevated in patients with acute Lyme disease.

We have now examined these immunologic markers in patients with chronic Lyme disease compared to appropriate disease controls.

The study population consisted of 29 healthy controls, 445 patients with chronic Lyme disease, 11 patients with systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) and six patients with AIDS.

The Lyme disease patients were divided according to predominant musculoskeletal symptoms (324 patients) or predominant neurologic symptoms (121 patients).

C3a and C4a levels were measured by radioimmunoassay.

All patients with chronic Lyme disease and AIDS had normal C3a levels compared to controls, whereas patients with SLE had significantly increased levels of this marker.

Patients with predominant musculoskeletal symptoms of Lyme disease and AIDS patients had significantly increased levels of C4a compared to either controls, patients with predominant neurologic symptoms of Lyme disease or SLE patients.

Response to antibiotic therapy in chronic Lyme disease was associated with a significant decrease in the C4a level, whereas lack of response was associated with a significant increase in this marker.

In contrast, AIDS patients had persistently increased C4a levels despite antiretroviral therapy.

Lyme patients with positive single-photon emission computed tomographic (SPECT) scans had significantly lower C4a levels compared to Lyme patients with normal SPECT scan results.

Patients with predominant musculoskeletal symptoms of Lyme disease have normal C3a and increased C4a levels.

This pattern differs from the increase in both markers seen in acute Lyme disease, and C4a changes correlate with the response to therapy in chronic Lyme disease.

C4a appears to be a valuable immunologic marker in patients with persistent symptoms of Lyme disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19140878

BACKGROUND:

Current laboratory markers do not readily detect acute Lyme disease. We assessed the utility of complement and its split products as markers of Lyme disease in patients shortly after a tick bite.

METHODS:

Thirty-one consecutive acute Lyme disease patients, 14 with and 17 without erythema migrans (EM) skin rash, seen by a physician within 96 h of a tick bite were matched with 24 consecutive tick bite patients without Lyme disease symptoms and 46 healthy control subjects.

Complement and split products measured included factor B, Bb, C4, C3c, C3a(des Arg), C4a(des Arg), C1q- and C3d-containing immune complexes, and C2.

RESULTS:

C2, C4, C3 and factor B levels were within normal ranges in all groups. C3a and C4a levels were significantly higher in acute Lyme disease patients than in tick bite and healthy control groups (both p < 0.001).

All acute Lyme disease patients, regardless of EM, had elevated levels of C3a or C4a. Few tick bite controls had elevated levels of C3a (2/20) or C4a (5/24) and only 1 of the healthy control subjects had elevated C3a (0/46) or C4a (1/32).

CONCLUSIONS:

These findings suggest that C3a and C4a may be useful markers of Lyme disease in patients seen shortly after tick bite, even in those without EM.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18270493

broke up long/long paragraphs/emphasized, bettyg, leader

Post edited by: Bettyg, at: 01/17/2012 03:23 AM


01/16/2012 08:39 PM
mlccc2
mlccc2  
Posts: 441
Member

Thanks James for your reply. I cannot recall if my C3a has been done but as you can see from my previous post that the C4a is high. I live in California. I fell ill back in Oct 2009. I was driving, hands got real sweaty and felt like I was going to pass out. Pulled over and went completely out for 10 seconds. We did have mold removed from our downstairs ceiling as the shower pan had been leaking for several years. Symptoms still are heart palpitations,nausea, brain fog, feeling of passing out, sweaty palms etc. I have given up driving all together. I basically never leave the house due to feeling bad a majority of the time. Doctor claims it's a biotoxin illness and I should leave the house for 60 days to see if I get better. Lyme test was done by Ignex but it came back vague.I'm not aware if I've ever been bitten by anything. Mold we had removed was Penicillium, Stachybotrys,Aspergillius. All I can say is I cannot remember what it feels like to feel good and every time blood panels are drawn my Epstein Barr is re-activated.

01/16/2012 10:27 PM
mlccc2
mlccc2  
Posts: 441
Member

My C3a was done back in May 2011 recorded at 290(reference range 55-486)I failed to mention one of the major problems I suffer with is a tremendous amount of head pain. I get sharp shooting pains that make me grab my head several times throughout the day along with what feels like inflammation "flares" on top. I just really hope this is related to the elevated C4a and at some point it will go away. The only way to relieve it is to lie down for several hours.

Post edited by: mlccc2, at: 01/18/2012 08:25 PM

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