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11/18/2008 12:35
PegB
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Yes, follow your doctor's instructions. You and she can "tweak" if necessary, depending on your response(s).

Just a gentle reminder: um, you probably will feel worse (off and on, maybe) for a while before you start to get better. Everyone's different, but it seems to hold true for a lot of folks. And I'm very glad to have been warned of this when I began my treatment. Knowing it was expected, even desirable (cuz you're likely herxing), made it much easier to get through. People on this forum have told me over and over, it's cyclical and your road to recovery will have hills and valleys. It's been 3 1/2 months of abx and other supps and diet changes, etc. and I am starting to feel better, so hang in there.

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11/18/2008 13:10
cmany
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King,

I am a FIRM believer in aggresive treatment. Because the bacteria can do a lot to protect itself. Think of it this way, some abx can only partly attack the bacteria, so having another to come at it and break it down more, and then another...Lyme is resiliant - but doesnt get resistant...it changes form to protect itself. So by coming at it from more then one direction, you stand a better chance at getting somewhere.

Remember, i did aggressive treatment for 12 yrs - maybe even longer - dont feel like doing the math...but I always did best when we used multiple abx plus alt treatments. It is important at the same time to boost your immune system. As supplements will help - you have to be on a good diet...

I have been on Suprax, Amox, Bicillian, Biaxin, Spectrobid, Augmentin, Zithromax, Rifampin, Rocephin, Flagyl...and there is more in there. Some were OK - been on others that did nothing...but always did best with a cocktail of abx...Suprax, Biaxin & Zithro worked really well...Rifampin alone was pretty kick-ass too...as far as Doxy is concerned - there are stronger drugs - but for some it works well...

And there has been the alt's too. and that is HUGE list....

Treating the CNS is a long process - I absolutely hate when ANY doc gives time frames. You have to consider how the disease breaksdown and replicates...if you have had this undiagnosed for a few years, a couple of months of treatment just isnt going to do it. It has run around your body unchallenged for far too long.

Not trying to put you down or what your doc has said down, but I believe in being practical and realistic. I know that I still have YEARS ahead of me in order to find the road to remission. And I have learned not to set myself up for disappointment. A general time frame is fine - but accept that it could be longer or shorter for you. Accepting that it may take more and longer treatments is not a negative outlook - it is practical...and eliminates disappointment. Especially when you have a positive turn around in a short time - then you feel great and have reason to celebrate!

Getting started slowly is Fine - as it will allow you to track your changes. And tracking your changes and possible herxes is also very important.

The main thing is tho, you have a diagnosis, you have a doc, and you are starting treatment. So long as you are on the road to getting better does it really matter how long it takes to get there? I know that it is a rough question for all...but think about it. You had a long journey getting to this point - the journey doesnt end either...it takes a new path, with new ups and downs and twists and turns - but you have the knowledge at your disposal - no more stumbling through the darkness trying to find answers. Time is irrelevant - healing is what you are striving for - and if it takes time, so be it - its better then the alternative...

OK - getting kinda preachy here...so I am gonna cut out...

Christine

I know what I am and I know what I am not

Never put it past this disease to be the culprit - but we also cant brainwash ourselves into believing that it is the only thing

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11/18/2008 13:53
anxiety
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No mouthwash with Lyme, because it contains alcohol? I've heard the "no alcohol with lyme" thing, but it's a bit weird, since you're recommending Samento, which contains pure alcohol!

Maybe I've missed something, apologies if I have!

=]

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11/18/2008 13:57
anxiety
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Oh and King: I'm no expert so please be aware of that before you take my words on board...

BUT I can tell you this: I WISH I had been put on your regimen when first diagnosed. Like many I was given 3 weeks of 200mg/daily doxy and sent away to go and get better.

Obviously, that hasn't happened. With your regimen you have a much better chance than I. I truly hope that you beat this thing.

I'm not here to sell you Samento or Lauricidin or any of the 'hard-to-get' products because I have no proof that they work. They might. I've been on Samento and it's certainly done me no harm, but I can't tell you it will make you better. DO get some garlic and olive leaf supplements because they are GENERALLY very good for you and will help to keep your immune system as healthy as possible while you're suffering from lyme + taking abx.

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11/18/2008 16:50
fluffyluggage
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Anxiety, it's no alcohol while on Flagyl...It's a deadly combination. I do know, however, that there are many, many mouthwashes that contain no alcohol. I didn't think about the Samento mixed with Flagyl, tho, so that is something you should really talk to your doc about, King. Samento is about 20-25% pure Ethanol, so that might be a problem when mixed with the Flagyl, you may need to take it when you aren't on the Flagyl, if you choose to do so. I wasn't even thinking about that! Good catch, anxiety!!
Just because it's impossible doesn't mean it can't happen.

I'm not a doc, so anything I say is my opinion only. Nothing I say is meant as offense, I offer what I can as help.

I believe in educating myself on all my medical issues and being my own advocate, for no one else with do that on my behalf. I recommend we all do the same!

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Perhaps I truly am insane for expecting these docs to listen to me when I say the same things repeatedly to no avail? LOL. I am tired of seeking out new docs and getting the same result time and again...Forgive me if I seem bitter some days.

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11/18/2008 16:55
king2626
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Mabye I will just stick to brushing my chompers very good
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11/18/2008 17:08
beauty4ashes
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A lot of good info here,.... I am sitting on the sidelines on this one... TAKING NOTES!!!

(((HUGS)))

I'm F.I.N.E.
Frustrated, Irritated, Nonfunctional & Everything hurts!!

Sarcasm: Embrace it!
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"Always hold your head up, but be careful to keep your nose at a friendly level" - Max L. Foreman
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I just wish he didn't trust me so much.
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"There's always light at the end of every tunnel, just pray it's not a train! "
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Faith makes things possible, not easy!
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11/19/2008 05:58
cave76

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anxiety said:

****DO get some garlic and olive leaf supplements because they are GENERALLY very good for you and will help to keep your immune system as healthy as possible while you're suffering from lyme + taking abx.

Agreed.

Garlic and OLE are good supplements and generally safe to take.

Abx is proven scientifically to be the best treatment for Lyme and other co-infections.

King---- you're taking a fairly hefty dose of abx but I've seen a lot more used at one time.

Were you cautioned about the need to take your probiotics away from the abx?

And some abx need to be taken 2 hours away from any calcium intake.

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11/19/2008 10:18
king2626
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I have decided to start just with doxy this week, then add the zithro Monday (will be taking it M-F anyway) then the flagyl the following wkend. I just fear bombarding myself all at once.

This may sound silly. But I think I could have had a mini herx already, or it was just a bad night. Last night I had pains all over my body...my standard toothache like pains in my bones but electrical shooting pains too. I seemed to be hurting all over. Maybe its just me getting worse as the night before I felt a ton of pains hitting my hands.

How do you know if you have a herx, and how long does a herx last?

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11/19/2008 11:33
cmany
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A herx is when you symptoms are exadurated (sp???)...so its like you have been lets say a 5 on the pain scale for a significant period. After getting started on the meds, you suddenly spike, and they just get worse - all at once it seems...I guess that is the easiest way for me to explain it...for some they can kinda feel it building. I tend to just ache and ache, then things just hurt longer then normal....

For me when I took Rifampin last year, I woke up one morning and it was as if I had been run over. I had flare ups of symptoms that I hadnt had since I was in my teens and early 20's. Had to go back to wearing knee braces, was just wiped out, and struggled with everything for 2 weeks - then it was just gone. POOF!

As for duration, it is going to be dependant upon you. You need to be detoxing - that will help to cut the time down. Ultimately tho, it is different for everyone. But up to 2wks is not uncommon.

Just make sure you drinking plenty of water - Half your weight in ounces is a good rule to follow - PLAIN...also look into some detox teas and regimines...

Good luck

Christine

I know what I am and I know what I am not

Never put it past this disease to be the culprit - but we also cant brainwash ourselves into believing that it is the only thing

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