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cave76
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cave note: One of the many reasons Lyme is difficult to eradicate and how it can go 'quiet' for months or years and still come back later. Bolding and spacing is mine. The division time of Borrelia burgdorferi is very long. Most other pathogens such as Streptococcus, or Staphylococcus, only take 20 minutes to double, the doubling time of Borrelia burgdorferi is usually estimated to be 12-24 hours. Since most antibiotics are cell wall agent inhibitors, they can only kill bacteria when the bacteria begins to divide and form new cell wall.(35,59-62) This means: Since most antibiotics can only kill bacteria when they are dividing, a slow doubling time means less lethal exposure to antibiotics.
Most bacteria are killed in 10-14 days of antibiotic. To get the same amount of lethal exposure during new cell wall formation of a Lyme spirochete, the antibiotic would have to be present 24 hours a day for 1 year and six months! Note: Antibiotics kill bacteria by binding to the bacteria's ribosomes, and interrupting the formation of cell wall proteins. Like other spirochetes, such as those that cause Syphilis, the Lyme spirochete can remain in the human body for years in a non-metabolic state. It is essentially in suspended animation, and since it does not metabolize in this state, antibiotics are not absorbed or effective. When the conditions are right, those bacteria that survive, can seed back into the blood stream and initiate a relapse. (59-62,70)
This means: Just because a person is symptom free for long lengths of time doesn't mean they aren't infected. It may be a matter of time. Whereas viral infections often impart a lifelong immunity, Lyme, like other bacterial infections, does not retain active immunity for long periods of time. People are often reinfected with Lyme. (96) http://www.canlyme.com/tom.html |
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cmany
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Cave - This is one of the best things I have ever used to throw the BS back at a skeptical doc. Of course my way of saying it was much less - oh - IDK less word useage, less explaination...but still enough to drive the point home that not only did I know what I have, but I UNDERSTOOD the disease much more than the offending doc did. Basically said that if he didnt understand the (i think i said) pathology (whatever the term was) of the disease, how could he form ANY opinion of anything that was worth a damn... Hee hee, i was not so politely asked to leave...guess I was a little ugly about it too...OH WELL - I simply wont suffer their ignorance... My advice - anyone with a sheep-headed doc should bring simplified info like this - especially when they treat for 3wks and say "Cured"... 
Christine I know what I am and I know what I am not
Never put it past this disease to be the culprit - but we also cant brainwash ourselves into believing that it is the only thing |
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shortangle2
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Cave, Terrific info. Thanks for posting it. |
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Zennia
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So, it sounds like another class of antibiotics is in order. Get the treatment down to two weeks...and be done! That's what they're trying to do with TB at least. Why should Lyme be any different. Anyone trying anything new? |
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PegB
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(Heavy sigh.) Jeez. Maybe it's my state of mind (not feeling good today) but I read this to mean--you may never be rid of it. (Very heavy sigh.) Post edited by: PegB, at: 11/15/2008 17:50 |
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cave76
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Peg---- that information wasn't meant to depress anyone. It certainly isn't 'happy' information either.  But it helps explain the mechanisms of the bacteria, which hopefully will explain why just a few months of abx doesn't necessarily 'cure' anyone----- which hopefully will keep people from being TOO depressed when they don't get better as fast as they want. Information is power. Sorry you're not feeling good right now. |
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Julie4848
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Peg: I'm well, connie is well, clayton is well...You can get well please don't think you can't. And I don't believe it will never leave our bodies....We can research all we want, does not mean its right or wrong, I don't think we still have that answer....Keep the faith... Julie Lyme will not win, we will and we WILL… |
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ConnieD
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Peg.....it's like many other diseases...you can keep it in remission. Think of EBV....people always test positive for that once you've had it. The key is to rebuild your immune system so you can fight these infections the way God intended for our bodies to work. Have you ever noticed how some people don't get sick? I have heard of people testing postivie for Lyme and yet they have no symptoms. Their immune systems again are functioning the way God intended. Healing from this disease is more than taking antibioitcs. For me, I allowed too much stress in my life. Honestly, I think I was taking life too seriously. I was so focused on my kids and keeping everybody happy and doing the 'right' thing, I forgot to nurture myself,too. Stress plays a big role in illness. Over time, science is proving that point,too. You can get well and stay well....I'm sure of it. Remember when I was reinfected this past Spring? Well, because of the changes I made in my life and the wonderful care of my doc, I was able to beat the new infection quickly (in a matter of a few weeks....with a little help from Samento and other herbals and homeopathics,too). I just read that you are having a bad day and I know how hard it is to stay positive and believe that you will get well. I have been there,too. But, believe it and pray about it with all your heart. The answers will come. Please do not take anything I say as medical advice. I am not a doctor.
Open your mind to the possibilities available to you.
An attitude of gratitude is good 'medicine,' too.
~Lyme Disease Support Group Leader~ |
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fluffyluggage
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Honestly, those of you who know me even fairly well know that I'm very torn about whether or not one can be CURED from this disease, but I do honestly feel that we can be in remission for a very long time, perhaps even decades, and hopefully FOREVER...As Connie and Cave said, please don't take everything you read as a negative and look on the positive side. Take what works for you, and leave the rest! Think of worry as negative prayer, Peg...It's like sending a black cloud in a box to yourself if you worry about yourself, and to someone else if you worry about someone else. It's no good, and you can't live life like that, not if you want to get somewhere. We all have bad days, and I certainly don't believe Cave intended to post this so that it would hit someone in a way as to cause you pain or hurt you and scare you into feeling there is no hope. I do sometimes think that the things we see can have a HUGE impact on us, so I get EXACTLY where you are coming from. Some of the "biowarfare" posts really hit me the same way! Please have hope, Peg. We all are here to support you and let you know we're ALL in this fight together. If you EVER need to talk, vent, or whatever, I'm HERE...I'm almost always around. Even if it doesn't look like it on the public boards, I'm almost always here. I've kinda stopped posting some on the public boards, for my own personal reasons, but I'm re-emerging. Please feel free to talk to me if you want to!  *hugs* You ARE NOT alone! And you CAN and WILL get better. I truly believe that, and I truly believe that you must think positively! See it, and feel it. And it will happen. Jen Just because it's impossible doesn't mean it can't happen.
I'm not a doc, so anything I say is my opinion only. Nothing I say is meant as offense, I offer what I can as help.
I believe in educating myself on all my medical issues and being my own advocate, for no one else with do that on my behalf. I recommend we all do the same!
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Perhaps I truly am insane for expecting these docs to listen to me when I say the same things repeatedly to no avail? LOL. I am tired of seeking out new docs and getting the same result time and again...Forgive me if I seem bitter some days. |
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PegB
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Thanks, guys. I appreciate how you have all rallied around to reassure me. Not to worry, overall I'm hopeful, and in fact, have been getting better, but last few days have not been so great. But I know this is cyclical and this too shall pass. I do believe I will get well. Went to dinner with some friends and acquaintances last week and when I said I had Lyme disease, one woman said "Oh no, you don't get well from that, do you?!" I sighed, then laughed a little and said, "Yeah, that's helpful, thanks," lol. Like I said, overall, I'm optimistic but when you're having a bad day, sometimes things just get to ya a little. But thanks for caring enough to post and lift me up. You guys are the best. And Cave, I appreciate any and all info, your posts are very informative, I certainly didn't mean to lay a guilt trip on ya, lol. Knowledge is power, and I appreciate you folks who do the research and legwork for the benefit of all of us. Thanks for that. - Peggy |
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