I'm talking Milk Thistle mostly for liver support. I try to take 2-3 grams of vitamin C per day (buffered and Ester) I'm interested in liver and lymph (blood cleansing) support. I know Buhner recommends smilax and that did help with brain fog when I tried it a while ago.

I'm currently taking Cat's claw 3 caps per day. Symptoms greatly reduced, sleep improving. I have experienced moderate herx when adding N.A.C or Germanium Sesquioxide (30mg) to this.

Yesterday I broke my thumb playing catch/football with my son. Aside from the pain there was an immediately bile dump which made me sick to my stomach as it contained the waste from the previous day's Germanium die off. 8 charcoal caps helped.

I want to add lymph support, every time I try to workout I feel awful. I know the lymph drainage is causing that.

Liver support is crucial. I have dandelion but I'm thinking that might also increase die-off. A great many herbs are anti-biotic.

If anyone can give me help on liver and lymph support I would appreciate it.

Also is anyone using MSM? I just read that the MMS folks have added it and it acts as a transport mechanism helping cell permeability getting toxins out and abx/herbs in.

http://www.mmslymecure.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14

My question for you is, are you taking the charcol everyday? Multiple times a day?

I ask because as good as it is, it can also deplete the good stuff that you are taking too. I had problems with that myself...I was not absorbing enough nutrients from food and supplements...I stopped taking the charcol and things turned around...I now take it when I am going to eat things in large amts that I really shouldnt - like pizza...Just curious tho - dont want to question it if it is working for ya.

Christine

http://tinyurl.com/6ce8ox

Activated Charcoal

What is it?

Activated Charcoal is a supplement used when accidental poisonings have occurred. The charcoal helps absorb the poison and carry it out of the body. It is also used to treat high cholesterol, diarrhea, upset stomach, and gas.

Other names for Activated Charcoal include: Active Carbon, Adsorbent Charcoal, Carbo Activatus, Carbon Active, Carbon Attivo, Decolorising Charcoal, and Medicinal Charcoal.

Ask your doctor, nurse, or pharmacist if you need more information about this medicine or if any information in this leaflet concerns you.

Before Using:

Tell your doctor if you

* are taking medicine or are allergic to any medicine (prescription or over-the-counter (OTC) or dietary supplement)

* are pregnant or plan to become pregnant while using this medicine

* are breastfeeding

* have any other health problems, such as high blood pressure or heart or blood vessel disease

Dosage:

Talk with your caregiver about how much Activated Charcoal you should take. The amount depends on the strength of the medicine and the reason you are taking Activated Charcoal. If you are using this medicine without instructions from your caregiver, follow the directions on the medicine bottle. Do not take more medicine or take it more often than the directions tell you to.

To store this medicine:

Keep all medicine locked up and away from children. Store medicine away from heat and direct light. Do not store your medicine in the bathroom, near the kitchen sink, or in other damp places. Heat or moisture may cause the medicine to break down and not work the way it should work. Throw away medicine that is out of date or that you do not need. Never share your medicine with others.

Drug and Food Interactions:

Since Charcoal has such a strong ability to absorb material, it may cause problems with any medicine you may be taking by reducing how much gets absorbed by your body. This has the potential to be life threatening.

If you are taking any drugs, check with your health care giver before taking Activated Charcoal. The following have been studied and are not well absorbed when taken with Charcoal:

* Acarbose

* Carbamazepine (Tegretol(R))

* Digoxin (Lanoxin(R))

* Furosemide (Lasix(R))

* Leflunomide

* Miglitol (Glyset(R))

* Olanzapine (Zyprexa(R))

Warnings:

* Before taking Activated Charcoal, tell your doctor if you are pregnant or breastfeeding

Side Effects:

Stop taking your medicine right away and talk to your doctor if you have any of the following side effects. Your medicine may be causing these symptoms which may mean you are allergic to it.

* Breathing problems or tightness in your throat or chest

* Chest pain

* Skin hives, rash, or itchy or swollen skin

Other Side Effects:

You may have the following side effects, but this medicine may also cause other side effects. Tell your doctor if you have side effects that you think are caused by this medicine.

* Dark stools (BMs) (16,17,18)

* Upset stomach (16,17,18)

* Throwing up (16,17,18)

References:

1. Anon: USPDI: Drug Information for the Health Care Professional, 17th ed. US Pharmacopeial Convention Inc, Rockville, MD; 1997.

2. Anon: American Academy of Clinical Toxicology; European Association of Poison Centers and Clinical Toxicologists: Position statement: single-dose activated charcoal. J Toxicol Clin Toxicol 1997; 35:721-741.

3. FDA: Poison treatment drug product for over-the-counter human use; tentative final monograph. Fed Register 1985; 50:2244-2262

4. Product information: Precose ®, acarbose. Bayer Corporation, West Haven, CT; 1998

5. North DS, Peterson RG & Krenzelok EP: Effect of activated charcoal administration on acetylcysteine serum levels in humans. AM J Hop Pharm 1981; 38: 1022-1024.

6. Neuvonen PJ, Elfving SM & Elonen E: Reduction of absorption of digoxin, phenytoin and aspirin by activated charcoal in man. Eur J Clin Pharmacol 1978; 13:213-218.

7. Product Information: Ipecac syrup. Eli Lilly and Company, Indianapolis, IN; 1989

8. Product information: Arava ™, leflunomide. Hoechst Marion Roussel, Inc., Kansas City, MO; 1998

9. El-Bahie N, Allen EM, Williams J et al: The effect of activated charcoal and hyoscine butylbromide alon and in combination on the absorption of mefenamic acid. Br J Clin Pharmacol 1985; 19:836-838.

10. Product information: Glyset ™, miglitol. Bayer Corporation, West Haven, CT; 1996.

11. Karkkainen S & Neuvonin PJ: Effect of oral charcoal and urine pH on dextropropoxyphene pharmacokinetics. Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther Toxicol 1985; 23:219-225

12. Product information: Zyprexa ™, olanzapine. Eli Lilly and Company, Indianapolis, IN; 1997.

13. GrebWH, Buscher G, Dierdorf HD et al: Ability of charcoal to prevent absorption of paroxetine. Acta Psychiatr Scand 1989; 80 (suppl 350):156-157.

14. Bachrach WH & Hofmann AF: Ursodeocycholic acid in the treatment of cholesterol cholelithiasis (Part I). Dig Dis Sci 1982; 27:737-761.

15. Product information: Charcocaps(R), activated charcoal. Requa,Inc, Greenwich, CT; 1997.

16. Minocha A, Wiley SH, Chabbra DR et al: Superior efficacy of sorbitol cathartics in poisoned patients. AAPCC/AACT/AMBT/CAPCC Annual Scientific Meeting, Santa Fe, New Mexico, September 25-30 1986b, Abstract 112.

17. Watson WA, Guy JC & Leighton J: The incidence of emesis after activated charcoal in emergency room patients. AAPCC/AACT/ABMT/CAPCC Annual Scientific Meeting, Santa Fe, New Mexico, September 25-30, Abstract 132.

18. Dockstrader LL, Lawrence RA & Bresnick HL: Home administration of activated charcoal: feasibility and acceptance. AAPCC/AACT/ABMT/CAPCC Annual Scientific Meeting, Santa Fe, New Mexico, September 25-30, 1986, Abstract 1.

19. Mauro LS, Nawarskas JJ & Mauro VF: Misadventures with activated charcoal and recommendations for safe use. Ann Pharmacother 1994; 28:915-924.

20. Neuvonen PJ, Kivisto K & Hirvisalo EL: Effects of resins and activated charcoal on the absorption of digoxin, carbamazepine and frusemide. Br J Clin Pharmacol 1988; 25:229-233.

Please remember that you should not present any information on supplements without making sure that other people know you are not a doctor and that a doctor should ALWAYS be consulted before taking any over-the-counter supplements, or any supposed "miracle cures" advertised on the internet.

The same note of caution should be taken with these natural cures and rife machines and the like, that you take in life on most things; if it sounds to good to be true, most likely it is.

See a doctor (a real one), get on a treatment plan and work towards getting well.

Tom

I think this board DOES discuss treatments.

It discusses ILADS treatments (abx) and it discusses alternative (non-ILADS) treatments.

We're all free to discuss our opinions and experiences, which differ wildly sometimes.

I for one think that ANY board should also allow members to feel free to give a gentle heads-up when there could be a negative outcome to a treatment/or supplement or protocol.

It's just a heads up. Each person is free to ignore it.

I for one will always appreciate a head-up warning about any treatment.

I just reread your post. At the end, I read MSM as one of the treatments you're using.

Then I see that in the next sentence you typed:

****Also is anyone using MSM? I just read that the MMS folks have added it and it acts as a transport mechanism helping cell permeability getting toxins out and abx/herbs in.

*****

Being confused as to which you meant---- I went to the url and saw that it was for MMS!!!

MMS is a highly debatable 'health' scam started by Jim Humble (or at least latched onto by him) that has SO many huge holes in it (not counting the basic chemistry of it!).

One of them is his bogus Malaria studies in Africa. It makes for rich and entertaining reading but has hardly any resemblance to fact.

Good luck with it. It might be worth your while to stick with a forum that doesn't tolerate debate or discussion.