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07/23/2008 07:28
lymemd
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Fry test not helpful. Mycoplasma: everyone has been exposed. It has been found in joint fluid and synovial membranes of patients with reactive arthritis (ReA). Chlamydia pneumonia is similar and may be more important. It is associated with MS and other chronic neurological disorders. See work of Weldon in England and Stratton in US. These bacteria are L-forms which have no cell wall and reside inside cells along with Borrelia. Mycoplasma fermentans is transmitted by ticks, the other germs are respiratory. Lyme may weaken the immune system so that these germs become problematic. They are hard to kill. Stratton's work shows you need a complex antibiotic regimen. Vitamin D dysregulation is a sign of L-form disease. Vitamin D OH 25 is low, vitamin D 1,25 is high. This causes immune suppresion. Marshall protocol doesn't work well and most LLMDs have discarded it. Benicar balances vitamin D and may be helpful. DO NOT TAKE VIT D: IT IS AN IMMUNE SUPPRESSING STEROID. Bartonella is a small gram negative bacteria with a cell wall. Not Hemobartonella. It has been found in homeless folks. All biting insects transmit it: flies, fleas and others. It is usually an issue in immune suppressed patients. It has been reported to cause more psychiatric disturbances. Some claim the Levaquin is best drug. Careful. Levaquin and Cipro can cause tendon rupture and joint pain. Most Lyme drugs like Zithro kill it. Rifampin works as well. If Lyme is well treated it probably takes care of itself. Some patients only get better with Cipro or Levaquin. They may have other germs like Salmonella. L-forms are difficult to get rid of and may require indefinite antibiotic therapy. They are associated with fibromyalgia as well. More info on my blog: Lymemd.Blogspot.com. I keep learning myself.
I am a family doctor in Germantown Maryland. I have been treating Lyme for several years and have treated between 500 and 1000 patients. I am learning all the time. I don't claim to have all the answers. I answer questions because I want to help people. Everything about this disease is controversial. I want to write a book which will be a patient guide to Lyme, so questions from patients are helpful to me.

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07/23/2008 08:05
goldfinch
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Lymemd, so your saying low Vitamin D is a sign of the L-form disease such as Mycoplasma and Chlamydia pneumonia and not a sign of Lyme or Bartonella? I'm just curious because I am being treated for Lyme and Bartonella and I also have a low vitamin D. The only test that turned up positive for me was the Lyme and my doctor suspects Bartonella based on my clinical symptoms. I am currently on amoxicillin, zithromax and rifampin as well as a probiotic and Vitamin D supplement. Should I stop taking the Vitamin D and take the Benicar? Is Benicar over the counter or a prescription?
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07/23/2008 11:02
tomro62
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Lymemd has mentioned a very specific circumstance, so a person should not get confused.

He has suggested that Vitamin D supplements not be taken by someone who has a high active vitamin D (D 1,25). If your active vitamin D is within normal ranges, and you have low inactive vitamin D (D OH 25), supplementation is not harmful.

The L-Form of Lyme disease is just one of the forms of the disease. The other forms are the spirochette and the cyst. Each form can be fought in different ways, with different antibiotics and supplementation.

Vitamin D regulation is a big part of the Marshall Protocol, which primarily addresses the L-Form of Lyme disease, and other infectious diseases that are L-Forms...if I'm saying that right.

There are people who respond to the Marshall Protocol, but there are those who respond to other treatments for Lyme disease.

I have only heard of Benicar being used to balance vitamin D in the Marshall Protocol.

My doctor prescribed Benicar for it's anti-inflammatory benefits, and is supposed to be beneficial in breaking down the fibrin that lines the blood vessels, which you will find in inflammatory diseases such as Lyme. The spirochettes like to hide in the fibrin, so if Benicar breaks down the fibrin, then antibiotics can kill the spirochettes much more effectively. This is how it was explained to me.

Treatments are different for each patient, never forget that. You and your doctor must find the treatment regimen that works best for you.

Tom

I am not a doctor, and nothing I say here should be taken as medical advice of any kind.

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07/23/2008 11:18
goldfinch
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Tom,

Thanks for clarifying that for me!

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10/02/2008 16:40
Carol622
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10/2/08

Tom

Re: Vitamin D

You mentioned above

"Lymemd has mentioned a very specific circumstance, so a person should not get confused.

He has suggested that Vitamin D supplements not be taken by someone who has a high active vitamin D (D 1,25). If your active vitamin D is within normal ranges, and you have low inactive vitamin D (D OH 25), supplementation is not harmful."

-----Tom

Please help me understand about Vitamin D and the normal and abnormal ranges -- and which specific Vitamin D test(s) is used for making the decisions.

For example:

Based on prior lab tests -- I have found entries for the following Vitamin D tests:

There is a Vitamin D,25 Hydroxy Result Total

and range.

There is a Vitamin D, 25-OH D3 entry result.

There is a Vitamin D, 25-OH D2 entry result.

and

on another test

There is a Vitamin D, 1,25-Hydroxy result and range.

There is a Vitamin D, 1,25-Dihydroxy result and range.

What does it mean to be tested for D 1,25 Hydroxy?

What does it mean to be tested for D 1,25 Di-Hydroxy?

What does it mean to be tested for D OH25 D3?

What does it mean to be tested for D OH25 D2?

And What are the differences between each tests?

I need help in understanding which tests are used to base decisions for stopping Vitamin D vs. continuing Vitamin D.

What number result is considered inactive vs. active?

What number range is considered high active vs. low inactive?

Thank you for any help you can provide.

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10/02/2008 17:39
Julie4848
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Lymemd: I can't agree more on Cipro...One pill put in the ICU for 10 long days, they thought I was going to die....A dear friend of mine took Cipro, day 5, she stopped breathing and almost died...My mother took Levaquin and within 3 days could not move her fingers from the pain, it took 3 weeks to use them...

I believe Abx's do more harm to the body then good. All these years people are on them, wrong, it might not effect you at the moment, but in the long run they do...Someday when you need them again, your body will be immuned to them, then what??? I truly believe that doctors over use them...

Ok, everyone, this is MY thought does not mean its right or wrong...

Julie

Lyme will not win, we will and we WILL…

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10/02/2008 21:27
tomro62
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Posts: 358
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Carol,

I will send you a PM on Vitamin D. It would take a long time to type an answer here. I should get to it tomorrow.

Tom

I am not a doctor, and nothing I say here should be taken as medical advice of any kind.

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    Oh, by the way....
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