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09/12/2007 08:54 AM

vitamin D

Posts: 17

I've heard alot about vitamin D. what does it do to help fibro symptoms and what dosage should you take?

09/12/2007 09:15 AM
Posts: 467

ask ted he knows alot about vitimin D

09/12/2007 11:46 AM

Vitamin D3 will help fibromyalgia sufferers in several different ways so you will have to bear with me as I try to explain.

I think perhaps I should start by reminding readers that humans evolved as naked animals in a warm country. In order to survive further from the Equator only those with paler skins were able to successfully have babies.

Prospects for Vitamin D Nutrition explains the importance of Vitamin D and the way our bodies evolved with an abundance of Vitamin D from living more or less naked.

Now we do not live naked, not only do we wear clothes most of the time we also use sunscreen, sunblock, we drive in cars and shop in malls. We are warned so much about the dangers of skin cancer if overexpose our skin that children, adolescents and just about everyone has insufficient vitamin d status throughout the year.

Those people who do spend all day in the sunshine in leisure industry scenarios (swimming pool attendants) will have vitamin D status around 165nmol/L, this is a natural level that given adequate sun exposure most people will achieve. In practice most people in the UK (where I live) have levels around 40nmol/L for most of the year. About a quarter of what their bodies would naturally acquire.

We know that for maximum calcium absorption the body needs 80nmol/L and to ensure all the systems in your body can access vitamin D without raiding the stores 100nmol/L is necessary, 125nmol/L is the level at which peak physical athletic performance can be achieved and 137.5nmol/L is the level associated with the lowest incidence of cancer. So irrespective of the particular reasons I will now explain that relate to fibro sufferers there are a lot of good reasons why EVERYONE whatever their condition, should try to raise their status to around 137.5nmol/L.

Now the first point regarding Fibromyalgia is PAIN.

What is PAIN. Every pain syndrome has an inflammatory profile consisting of the inflammatory mediators that are present in the pain syndrome.

Vitamin D3 is an anti-inflammatory agent Vitamins A and D play important roles in both cell-mediated and humoral antibody response and support a Th2-mediated anti-inflammatory cytokine profile. Having available in your body sufficient vitamin d (together with other anti-inflammatory agents such as omega 3 and green tea etc)your body can control inflammation before it gets out of hand. This is why we need more than just sufficient vitamin d to meet our body's current daily needs.

Second point is DEPRESSION. First we have to recognise that for some people Fibromyalgia is a depressive condition. Some believe major depression in patients with FMS occurs primarily as a sequel to fibromyalgia. As far as Vitamin D is concerned we know that you will have optimal feelings of well-being if you have adequate Vitamin D status. Partly this is because depression is an inflammatory condition and as stated above vitamin d is an anti-inflammatory agent but also because it helps the brain to repair itself as low vitamin d status results in dysregulation of 36 brain proteins. You cannot expect your brain to work properly if it only has 50% of the vitamin D it needs.

Vitamin D deficiency is common in fibromyalgia and occurs more frequently in patients with anxiety and depression

A review of myofascial pain and fibromyalgia--factors that promote their persistence.This paper explains that sometimes, correction of an underlying cause of myalgia is all that is needed to resolve the condition. If the cause of some of your symptoms is actually the result of Vitamin D deficiency then eliminating that aspect of the condition may be worth doing, particularly as it is a very cheap, and very safe option.

Many patients with systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) and fibromyalgia (FM) may spend less time exposed to the sun than healthy individuals and thus might have low vitamin D levels. I think many people with FMS find bright light stressful and this may result in them preferring to be indoors. Another consequence of avoiding bright light is that people may be more inclined to use photochromic or tinted lenses and this may disrupt the enzyme reactions that control the tanning process. as your pineal gland controls your body temperature reducing the light entering your eyes may fool your brain into thinking your are cooler than you really are and consequently may adversely influence your actions when in the sun.

Is Fibromyalgia Just a Vitamin D Deficiency? I include this link to Bill Sardi's article NOT because I believe it is always true but because there is an element of truth to it that people with FMS need to consider and deal with. You will only know if your FMS is not associated with your vitamin D status if you have your vitamin D status measured

In this case a woman diagnosed with Fibromyalgia was in fact simply vitamin D deficient.

However to get back to where I started the main reason why I think everyone with FMS (and everyone who hasn't Fibromyalgia) should check their vitamin D status and ensure it is raised to at least 125nmol/L is because Fibromyalgia is an inflammatory condition

Cytokine patterns in fibromyalgia and their correlation with clinical manifestations.

OBJECTIVE: To examine the possible role of the soluble factor in fibromyalgia (FM) by studying the correlation of cytokine levels with the patients' clinical and psychiatric profile. METHODS: Eighty FM patients underwent clinical and psychiatric evaluations, and plasma levels of cytokines (IL-1, IL-6, IL-8, IL-10, TNF-alpha), aspecific markers of inflammation, rheumatoid factor (RF), anti-extractable nuclear antigen (ENA) antibodies, and anti-nuclear factor (FAN) were measured. RESULTS: Higher levels of IL-10, IL-8 and TNF-alpha were found in FM patients than in controls. Significant correlations between the biochemical parameters and clinical data were found. CONCLUSION: The higher levels of cytokines found in FM patients suggest the presence of an inflammatory response system (IRS) and highlight a parallel between the clinical symptoms and biochemical data. They support the hypothesis that cytokines may play a role in the clinical features of fibromyalgia. In addition, the similar cytokine patterns found in FM patients with different psychiatric profiles suggests that IRS impairment may play a specific role in the disease.

and Vitamin D is an anti inflammatory agent known to work in the brain.

High-dose vitamin D supplements act as anti-inflammatory

I think I've mentioned that people with Fibromyalgia suffer from chronic fatigue and that Vitamin D improves your muscle function if you raise your status to 125nmol/L which is associated with peak muscle performance. Older people particularly get weak and fall (and break bones) simply because their vitamin D status is so low they don't absorb calcium and their bones get weak, and their muscles are so weak they can't balance properly.

Quality of life, I've mentioned depression and the way Vitamin D improves your feelings of well being (if you take sufficient to meet your body's daily needs) well this impacts on your attitude to life generally. Vitamin D insufficiency affects physical, social and mental functions of osteoporosis patients and impairs QOL. Vitamin D was found to be one of the factors affecting QOL

The same will inevitably apply to FMS patients.

I've not dealt with the dosage to take.

First ONLY ever use Vitamin D3 Cholecalciferol. Do NOT accept prescription Vitamin D this is almost certainly Ergocalciferol and the Case Against Ergocalciferol is set out here.

I've explained why I think the end point you need to achieve for optimal feelings of well being, peak muscle performance and lowest risk of cancer is around 137.5nmol/L. I've shown you the paper from Vieth showing how 4000iu/daily D3 achieved improved feelings of well being.

The Urgent need to recommend an intake of vitamin D that is effective shows us that 400iu/daily of D3 raises status by around 9nmol/L

How much you need to take depends on where you live, (access to sunshine frequency of sunny days, length of time available) what your skin colour is (darker skins need longer in the sun to make the same amount of vitamin D, Your age your skin type and lots of other variables.

In general though the average UK adult has 40nmol/L for most of the Winter so for them to reach 137.5nmol/L means they have to achieve a rise of 137.5-40=97.5 divide that by 9 and you require nearly 11 400iu vitamin d tablets daily. or slightly over 4000iu/d.

If you listen to Heaney's talk at this conference slide 18 shows how much you need to achieve maximum calcium absorption and slide 33 shows what happens if throughout the Winter you take 5000iu daily, you get just over the 137.5nmol/L.

During the summer you would not require this amount but in the UK the average peak status is 70nmol/L so the gap is just 67.5nmol/l and 7 x 400iu =2800iu daily would be needed. If you used the 5000iu capsules from the mail order providers listed on the Vitamin D council website then taking just 4 of these a week in summer would be fine.

If you are currently vitamin D deficient and need to raise your status quickly then it would be worth buying the 50,000iu capsules and taking one of these each week for 8 weeks. You would average just over 7000iu/d and this would mean that every day you were consuming more than your body needed thus building up your reserves. Risk Assessment for Vitamin D shows anything under 10,000iu/daily is absolutely safe.

An alternative to using high strength Vitamin D3 capsules is to visit a sun tan palour that uses low pressure high UVB tubes three a week throughout the winter. This is probably a more expensive option. You may want to consider a Vitamin D Lamp by Sperti they won't export these to the UK so I can't personally recommend them, but they sound a good idea.

Post edited by: Ted_Hutchinson, at: 09/12/2007 16:43

02/26/2008 12:14 AM
pamlaPosts: 3

I have recently started using a tanning bed (for around 2 weeks) and have noticed that the "burning sensation" in my skin is pretty much gone. I have been having it non-stop for a couple of months. I also noticed that there is not near as much pain as I have been experiencing in the two months before I started tanning. I wondered if it is the heat from the tanning bed that is helping, or if it is just a coincidence. After reading this article it seems it could be the heat as well as possibly it is giving my body more Vitamin D. What do you think?

It's 1:13 a.m. and I forgot to get another prescription of sleeping pills, so even though I need to be to work at 8 a.m., here I am typing.


02/26/2008 04:38 AM
Posts: 272

My rhummy would fire me if I came in with even a hint of color! (I have considered it, though). It used to do wonders for my mood. I hope it works for you.

psk Wink

02/26/2008 04:51 AM

Sterner wrote:it is giving my body more Vitamin D. What do you think?A ten minute session on a tanning bed should if the tubes produce 5% UVB result in around 10-15,000iu/vitamin d if you did this 3 times a week you would more than meet your daily vitamin D usage.

It would be cheaper to use 5000iu/daily Cholecalciferol.Iherb vitaminlife vitaminshoppe also do cheap D3.

But you won't get a tan using supplements nor will you get the antimicrobial peptide production at the surface of your skin that is so important for preserving your immune function. So I use both supplements and regular short non burning sun exposure.

Post edited by: Ted_Hutchinson, at: 02/26/2008 06:53

02/26/2008 05:08 AM

psk wrote:

My rhummy would fire me if I came in with even a hint of color!Fire your rhummy.

Any health professional who doesn't understand the anti-inflammatory properties of vitamin d doesn't deserve to be working. It just shows they are not keeping up to date with the latest research. 25(OH)D3 plasma levels have been found inversely correlated at least with the RA disease activity showing a circannual rhythm (more severe in winter). Recently, greater intake of vitamin D was associated with a lower risk of RA, as well as a significant clinical improvement was strongly correlated with the immunomodulating potential in vitamin D-treated RA patients

While there is no need to obtain a tan in order to get sufficient vitamin d as regular SHORT non-burning exposures to UVB will raise your vitamin d status sufficiently, however a tan is a natural process. If you take it slowly using a high uvb source (some fast tanning beds are low uvb you must avoid these) and prepare your skin by improving your omega 3 intake and antioxidant status you will do more good than harm by keeping your vitamin d topped up. Surely your rhummy wants you to lower your heart disease risk and your cancer risk factors?

Ask for a 25(OH)D and sufficient vitamin D3 CHOLECALCIFEROL (accept no substitutes) to raise your status to around 50 ng/mL (125nmol/l) if you know anyone with cancer then get them to raise their status to 60nmol/l 150nmol/l. These are NATURAL levels that we would have attained and maintained if we spent more time outside as our bodies evolved to cope with.

02/26/2008 05:36 AM
pamlaPosts: 3


I really appreciate your information. Yes, I am still awake. It is now 6:30 a.m. so I will need to call off work today so I can try to sleep.

The info about the tanning beds is very appreciated. It will give me a chance to continue using what is working so well, and hopefully minimize some of the damage (skin cancer, etc.) risks. I am glad to hear from someone who actually has fibromyalgia talk about this. They are the only people I really want to listen to. I will try the vitamins you suggested. I never heard this information about Vitamin D, but it makes sense.

I also found a great chiropracter (a very positive person) who I see regularly now. The visits to him help a lot too.

02/26/2008 07:14 AM
Posts: 350

I'm claustrophobic there is no way am i going to get into a tanning bed, and i would get some kind of skin cancer, that would b my luck. that reminds me, does anyone here have any luck at all that they would share? I need some so bad. If not could everyone pray for me to ask God maybe he has some to share with all of us that need it. I'll pray for everyone here if u all could do the same. I will thank you all right now in advance. THANK YOU!!!!



Post edited by: mesafoxx, at: 02/26/2008 09:16

02/26/2008 07:51 AM

No wonder I felt so much better when I use to tan. Im going to start back up.

I like ted he's my new hero : )


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