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02/13/2011 11:27 AM
dmanflan
dmanflan
 
Posts: 1516
Group Leader
I'm an Advocate

Hey everyone!

I’m a little behind still but I’m getting a little more caught up. I have read a lot of different threads where we are discussing “stages” of cirrhosis, HE and other aspects of this terrible disease. Bobbi already reposted part of a discussion that I started a little while ago, but I’d like to continue and elaborate a little more…

Knowing what stage of the disease that we are in does serve a purpose, but we need to be careful about how much value we place in this knowledge. When we are in early stages, we need to take actions with our life habits and diet. In all stages we need to be aware of the complications and symptoms that we might experience so that we are able to react accordingly with medications or hospital treatment. Beyond that, we cannot afford to expend the energy worrying about just how sick we are!

In the post that Bobbi referred to I also discussed not getting hung up on MELD scores in terms of measuring how just how ill a patient is. Yes, it does indicate, to a certain extent, how close one may be to transplant time. No, it does not mean that a patient with a MELD of 15 is any sicker that a patient with a MELD of 14, MELD is just a mathematical function of the conditions currently presenting. Even in terms of "being on the list", MELD does NOT provide any degree of how much longer a patient will wait for a transplant, which, as I discussed previously, depends on a suitable, matching, organ becoming available before the MELD even comes into play. I remember that I always wanted to know my MELD. My TX center would not give it to me and they didn't routinely give all of the blood test results (they would always leave out one of the test results). It was their way of making the point that I am trying to make here.

I was in an offline support meeting the other day and we happened to discuss a different set of stages. I really think we all need to be aware of these stages as patients and as caregivers. The Kübler-Ross model, commonly known as the five stages of grief. The model describes a process by which people deal with grief and tragedy, especially when diagnosed with a potentially terminal illness or catastrophic loss.

I found the following discussion of the Kübler-Ross model in Wikipedia and quote it without permission. Please forgive the plagiarism and accept the reference to the site.

Start quote

The progression of stages is:

  1. Denial—"I feel fine."; "This can't be happening, not to me."

    Denial is usually only a temporary defense for the individual. This feeling is generally replaced with heightened awareness of positions and individuals that will be left behind.

  2. Anger—"Why me? It's not fair!"; "How can this happen to me?"; "Who is to blame?"

    Once in the second stage, the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue. Because of anger, the person is very difficult to care for due to misplaced feelings of rage and envy. Any individual that symbolizes life or energy is subject to projected resentment and jealousy.

  3. Bargaining—"Just let me live to see my children graduate."; "I'll do anything for a few more years."; "I will give my life savings if..."

    The third stage involves the hope that the individual can somehow postpone or delay a negative ending. Usually, the negotiation for an extended life is made with a higher power in exchange for a reformed lifestyle. Psychologically, the individual is saying, "I understand I am sick or may die, but if I could just have more time..."

  4. Depression—"I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"; "I'm going to die... What's the point?"; "I miss my loved one, why go on?"

    During the fourth stage, the individual begins to understand the certainty of their situation. Because of this, the individual may become silent, refuse visitors and spend much of the time crying and grieving. This process allows the individual to disconnect from things of love and affection. It is difficult to attempt to cheer up an individual who is in this stage. It is an important time for grieving that must be processed.

  5. Acceptance—"It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."

    In this last stage, the individual begins to come to terms with his disease and/or mortality or that of his loved one.

Dennis’ note: Acceptance is also the stage that we move forward in our treatment, looking for a positive outcome. This is the time that we begin to take care of ourselves as best we can; living each day for what it is working towards a future that may exist if we can get a transplant in time! It happened for me!

Kübler-Ross originally applied these stages to people suffering from terminal illness, later to any form of catastrophic personal loss (job, income, freedom). This may also include significant life events such as the death of a loved one, divorce, drug/alcohol addiction, the onset of a disease or chronic illness, an infertility diagnosis, as well many tragedies and disasters.

Kübler-Ross claimed these steps do not necessarily come in the order noted above, nor are all steps experienced by all patients, though she stated a person would always experience at least two. Often, people will experience several stages in a "roller coaster" effect—switching between two or more stages, returning to one or more several times before working through it.

Significantly, people experiencing (or caretakers observing) the stages should not force the process. The grief process is highly personal and should not be rushed, nor lengthened, on the basis of an individual's imposed time frame or opinion. One should merely be aware that the stages will be worked through and the ultimate stage of "Acceptance" will be reached.

end quote

I hope this helps!

Dennis

PS: CapeDrifter just posted a diary entry that really illustrates these points. Funny how kismet plays a part in our lives! Please read his diary entry on "Fussy Liver Phylogenesis...". It is a very poignant example of "acceptance". Well done, CD!

Post edited by: dmanflan, at: 02/13/2011 12:11 PM

Dennis

I am NOT a doctor or lawyer! The information that I share is from my own experiences and is to be considered as hearsay advice only.

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx

Check out our website http://MySickLiver.weebly.com for lots of liver information.
(copy and paste to a new browser window)
Reply

02/13/2011 12:27 PM  Top
Capedrifter
Posts: 320
Member

Good to have you back in action Dennis!

Previous discussions I participated in:
Just made a free long distance call!
Bad Week
cirrohsis

02/13/2011 12:28 PM  Top
TzuWho2
TzuWho2
 
Posts: 555
Member

Dennis

I am so glad you are back. You always are on target with your information. Right now I need to review this in regards to my current unemployment. Yes we do bounce back and forth. Right now I am in a positive phase with it and no longer angry or depressed.

I have accepted my diseases and am at the stage of doing what is necessary to get healthy.

Keep your help coming, we need it. Everyone here is so helpful, I feel like I am developing friendships and being alone that helps so much you can't know.

God bless you

Bonnie

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but by the moments that take our breath away."

"Good morning, this is GOD. I will be handling all of your problems today and I do not need your help. So have a good day."

Previous discussions I participated in:
stage of cirrhosis
Interview too well?
Diabetes

02/13/2011 02:26 PM  Top
allaboutlife
 
Posts: 211
Member

Thrilled you are back.

02/13/2011 06:02 PM  Top
bjlvls
bjlvls
 
Posts: 1005
Senior Member

Dennis, you're better than Rolaids! So glad you're better and so glad you're a part of us. Bobbi
Life is too short to wake up with regrets. So love the people who treat you right..Forget about, scratch that, Pray for the ones who don't. Believe everything happens for a reason. If you get a second chance, grab it with both hands. If it changes your life, let it. Nobody said life would be easy, they just promised it would be worth it!-Catherine Yen

Previous discussions I participated in:
Mom
stage of cirrhosis
cirrohsis

02/13/2011 06:18 PM  Top
TzuWho2
TzuWho2
 
Posts: 555
Member

ROFLMAO BJ-comparing our dear Dennis to rolaids, what a hoot.
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but by the moments that take our breath away."

"Good morning, this is GOD. I will be handling all of your problems today and I do not need your help. So have a good day."

Previous discussions I participated in:
stage of cirrhosis
Interview too well?
Diabetes

02/13/2011 06:43 PM  Top
helpmate1
helpmate1
 
Posts: 27
Member

Missed your posts, very glad to have you back. I'll be in the background reading and learning as long as I can.

Helpmate 1


Previous discussions I participated in:
Dennis
looking for some answers...
Hi

02/13/2011 06:57 PM  Top
dmanflan
dmanflan
 
Posts: 1516
Group Leader
I'm an Advocate

Does that mean I'm full of gas? SmileSmileSmile
Dennis

I am NOT a doctor or lawyer! The information that I share is from my own experiences and is to be considered as hearsay advice only.

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx

Check out our website http://MySickLiver.weebly.com for lots of liver information.
(copy and paste to a new browser window)

Previous discussions I participated in:
Mom
Sharp Liver Pains
Dennis

02/13/2011 08:15 PM  Top
bjlvls
bjlvls
 
Posts: 1005
Senior Member

Sounds like a personal question Dennis Laughing (and Of course not, Can you spell r-e-l-i-e-f?) WE WUB U!
Life is too short to wake up with regrets. So love the people who treat you right..Forget about, scratch that, Pray for the ones who don't. Believe everything happens for a reason. If you get a second chance, grab it with both hands. If it changes your life, let it. Nobody said life would be easy, they just promised it would be worth it!-Catherine Yen

Previous discussions I participated in:
Mom
stage of cirrhosis
cirrohsis
Reply

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