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ell
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Since we are on a little break from therapy for the holidays, I have had some time to reflect on the past few months of therapy. First, my husband (who is the diagnosed BP and undiagnosed alcoholic), stopped going to couple's counseling with me shortly before Thanksgiving--citing a lack of change in me. I am reevaluating my therapist and would like some input from folks who may have more experience. I chose this therapist (number two for my husband and me) based on the recommendation of friends who do anger management groups, victims' groups, and substance abuse groups. They said she would understand and be great for me. My concern is that she seemed to "turn" on me and we spent all of our sessions discussing my "tone" of voice and my body language. I understand these are important aspects of a relationship, and if my huband has a disease, then my anger is not a solution. BUT, in therapy he would turn on the charm, be a different person from the one I live with, literally tell such different versions of the truth that they were lies. I would get so frustrated listening to all the stories that I would exhibit my frustration via non-verbals. BUT, she would handle it by snapping at me to "cut it out;" tell me "that's rude;" the entire session would halt as she grilled me, in front of him, about my non-verbals--things like not looking at him while he talked, or not maintaining eye-contact, or disagreeing with something he said about the kids. Her accusations would actually catch me off guard and I would find myself saying that I had no idea I was doing anything--I didn't mean to be rude. I was literally shocked--both at the accusations and the way she made them. I felt like she could have asked me to explain what I was feeling; perhaps tell me that I looked angry, was I feeling angry? Why? That, to me, would have been more beneficial, to me at least! In fact, she even ended one session by asking me if she could tape record me so I could hear my tone--in front of my husband! Okay, I'm sure I have some built up defenses and am quite adept with the non-verbals, but I have 13 years of reasons why they are there. I have told her that he is verbally abusive, I have told her about the 12 pack plus a day for 13 years, she knows about the depression and BP. So, my question is, was her manner of handling the joint sessions appropriate? As far as I'm concerned, he now uses her handling of me to validate his use of "you made a face" or "you have a tone" as a means to shut me up, withdraw from me, or otherwise wound me and make it all my fault. He never says, it seemed like you made a face, is something bothering you? Then I would say, Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to, what I mean is... Instead, we can be talking about something as benign as the weather, and he'll snap, "you made a face! I'm done here." And he'll get up, walk away and refuse to continue talking to me. Sometimes justifying anger that lasts for days. I feel so dehumanized. How am I supposed to work on our marriage under these strict rules? His rules--no room for me to be a real person, or one who deserves any measure of respect, a second chance to say something, benefit of the doubt, or any validation. She has seemed slightly surprised when I told her how he seemed to use these interactions; does it seem to anyone else that maybe she doesn't believe me? Why would she take a situation like I've described and be punitive to me in the sessions; really, upon reflection, she has been disrespectful to me. She is not my mom; we are both grown adults--professionals. I think part of my shock was that she was speaking to me in a way similar to the one my husband uses with me (ie. telling me what I'm doing, feeling, thinking). I so wanted to believe she was all that my friends said, but I really think that she made everything worse. Everything I needed him to start to hear, and respect, was never brought up, but he was confirmed in the idea that I am to blame, he doesn't need to listen to me, he can be sharp with me and tell me what I am doing/thinking/feeling. Anyone have a thought? I hate to move on to therapist #3, especially since I have no idea where to go, but I think I would be better off saving my money. She just seemed to get everything wrong and not deal with what the issues in our life are;she used to suggest that I "sit in his lap," ask if I gave him kisses and hugs everyday, while he sat there saying he doesn't know why he bothers to not sleep with other women when he's out of town. And someone wants to know why I'm not maintaining eye contact with him while he talks???!!! Anyone have insight to share? How difficult is it to find a good therapist given our issues? Any suggestions for where to look? How to start the search? |
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JR1
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Dear Ell, "...bipolar folks--and addicts/alcoholics--tend to "push the buttons" with respect to the emotions of friends and loved ones. In my recovery I have learned that, when people are able to "push my buttons", I myself have installed those buttons--that is, something in my relationship to them gives them "permission" or empowers them to push my buttons. Therapy in that area is a good thing for me, allowing me to explore those emotional triggers and to find tools to relieve those stressors."--JR1 http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/dual-diagnosis-discussions/
general-support/8971-dual-diagnosedenabling-by-james-rist I know that this may sound a little twisted, but, from what I can see, your therapist is a pretty smart cookie. It looks as though she pushed all your hot buttons, and what was the result...!? Youir husband entered into his usual glib victory over you. Empowerment! Your reaction seems to have empowered (or "enabled", as you will) your husband's grandiose blame game. The foundation for management of a disease like BP, and even perhaps for managing interpersonal relationships, rests on attitudes, beliefs, and reactions. What would have happened had you NOT reacted--had you restrained yourself through listening, symbolic agreement, and passive responses to your therapist? The greatest trigger for my anger comes from someone's null response--someone's silent, cool, disinterested, and well-controlled refusal to react to me. To the manic mind that is a challenge which cannot be ignored! You had a painful moment in therapy, and your therapist seems very saavy in allowing you to feel that pain. Pain has been my greatest teacher. What do you think? Kindest regards, Jim Post edited by: JR1, at: 12/27/2007 12:16 |
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ezevans
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Jim, you are just too good!! I think he is right on with what he has said based on your inputs. Now the problem is that although you may be nodding your head in agreement, you may also have the urge to jump up and down, throw the laptop out the window and feel like no one in the world gets it. As important as the marriage counseling is, would it be possible for you to go to counseling on your own? It might be really helpful as the focus would be on just you, would probably feel less like being told to sit in the corner because you did something wrong and more like a confession. I'm not saying you have done things wrong, just that sometimes when you have the opportunity to just talk about YOUR emtions, it can be very healing. You do have the right to have your feelings validated. Its really hard to do marriage counseling when the individual suffering from BP is still trying to get their acts to gether, for lack of a better way of putting it, let alone working on martial problems when most other aspects of your life are in good order. My last thought is that if going to counseling is just too much for you, it may be worth considering another doctor.... you don't want it to get to the point you don't go at all because you feel miserable everytime.
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sky
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I have had a lot of experience going to therapy (about thirty plus years enough experience?!  Maybe the therapist is trying to get your husband to a level of trust with her before she turns to his problems. One time I convinced my current husband to go to marriage counselling. We were only going about 3 months. The therapist found out my husband was a 'trekki' He pushed him too hard regarding his behavior. He said Gee, for being such a fan of Star trek you are really violating one of their prime directives. This piqued my husbands curiosity, so he said what you do mean? The therapist told him he violated the prime directive 'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.' When we left, my husband said he couldn't stand him, he was an a-hole and he was NEVER going back there again!!! He pushed his buttons too soon, before he had enough of a rapport. Also,maybe the therapist is not the right one for you. Maybe you should call her privately and tell her how defensive you feel. There are a lot of good therapists. If your personality just doesn't click, I agree with ezevans to find someone else for yourself. |
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damselndistress
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I honestly don't see how marriage counseling is even appropriate for a couple involving one of the partner's having a disorder that distorts their perceptions. I have had to sit through similar sessions and it was almost downright unbearable. If I could be totally honest and secure with myself my response in the session would have to be that I don't see a reason of continuing a relationship with a person who has the thoughts and feelings that my partner does. And I would need to end the marriage. Final answer. No doubt. I avoid therapy with my husband and if and when I do go I cannot be myself or be honest therefore what's the point??? Sorry to be so negative. |
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jlh
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My son is bipolar and when he was having major problems that led to his dx, not knowing he was bipolar, the therapist they called for his first appt. told him that marriage counseling was not the way to go for them. He needed therapy for his mental illness, then to see a psychiatrist for meds and follow-up care. But marriage counseling in a bipolar marriage was not recommended for them. |
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ell
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Wow, thanks. A lot of information to think about. I'm glad that some of you seem to think the therapist is a "smart cookie!" I want to believe she is, especially since I've invested so much time. But, to those of you who thought it was positive to get me feeling and to discover what my "buttons" are, what is the point of getting me upset or placing blame on me? I guess I don't understand how that helps me or the relationship? Can you please explain to me the therapeutic value--the goal this achieves for the relationship? (My feeling like dirt.) I guess I understand that it is good for him/us if I just listen and understand what he feels, even if I don't agree--I don't need to argue. But, as for me, how does that help me? I feel very strongly that I want to be listened to as well. I want to be heard--to have a voice. If I am always wrong, if he interprets the therapy as validating his accusations that everything I do is wrong and that our problems are that I won't do what he wants (thus, being "difficult"), how does that help our family? I do agree that she is trying to gain his trust, but at what expense? My well-being? My having to go home and be accused of "misbehaviors?" His anger that I "won't change?" After all, even my therapist says... Also, what kind of relationship is it if I never "feel" anything? So I don't react, but we still have all the same problems. I don't feel it brings us closer at all. He still gets angry with me, I just don't participate. I guess I just feel like I keep getting the mudslides dumped on me, I have no release, and I'm being asked to just shovel my way out in silence. It is not a role I relish. Maybe I'm just not doing it right. I worry that my kids see me, the woman, as a doormat accepting a woman's role. I don't feel proud of myself and I can't stand not feeling proud of my life and the example I set for my children. I know that my husband's family thinks I am a "doormat;" my husband has told me his father has made these comments about me (in the context of my husband calling his father's wife a "bitch" or other word for a strong woman.) Can anyone shed some light on where this is all supposed to be going, because I don't quite get it.
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MsBimbo
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Dear Ell, I'm finally returning to the group and you get to be the lucky one for my first post in weeks! Hope you don't mind! Anyways, here's my take on what you've already described about that session with the counselor and your spouse. I can see her need to gain your spouses confidence to create a tool for future counseling. The regular marriage, that is one without the complication of bi-polar and substance abuse, has its own problems to begin with. The longer the relationship has been in progress the more embedded are the forms of abuse. Often they are present for so long that they begin to be accepted by both partners and aren't see for the abuse they are except by experienced therapists. The pulling you apart in front of the group is not a good idea. It is never ok to tear down or lecture another to the point she did. It would have been enough to have just mildly admonish you for the unproductive behavior. Then, later offering more indepth support in counseling for you on an individual basis would have been the way to approach the situation. Cross-talk is a distracting, destructive behavior in a group environment. Becoming aware of it through the group leader's mentioning of it, can be embarrassing. Resolving or lessening the impact of your own abusive behavior is a tool which should only be approached in the private counseling session. Progression in learning ways to defuse these destructive behaviors is first to be made aware of it. Then, understanding the causes a sympathetic counselor will help you to discover for yourself the motivating keys to the behavior. Then there should be encouragement or suggestions from the counselor to help you learn new ways of thinking that is replacing the lies which trap us with new truths about ourselves which empower us to make better choices in our communicative processes with whomever we are in relationship. Then the application process is where the rubber meets the road. It is difficult to nearly impossible to apply these new tools for living. It IS impossible when the other person is not communicating or is using the old forms of attack on us. Given time and more and more frequent encounters with the new us, the other person should begin to feel less threatened and will learn acceptance and hopefully begin to respond in a more appropriate manner facilitating a healthier exchange. They, of course, will need the same individual counseling to help them as we have already begun our own journey to recognizing our abusive ways, too. To accomplish any healing will require absolute dedication and honesty of all persons participating in the relationship. I want to encourage you to pursue this personal counseling. The wonderful results will increase your own self-esteem and improve your overall communicative skills and life for the better in ways you cannot know until you experience a new way of living. I hope for you and your spouse. May God Bless you in this Grand Adventure! MsBimbo MsBimbo |
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carmen33
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I could not have said it better Ms...welcome back to the group. Carmen |
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damselndistress
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The problem with allowing the husband to control the session is his prime motivation is to ruin the self esteem of ell. Make her question herself so he can manipulate her behavior to please himself. It's not a healthy relationship he seeks it's self serving. He is attempting to get the counselor on his side to further be able to manipulate his wife and change her behavior once again to please himself. This goes beyond pushing buttons. Way beyond. It's mind control. Ell is doing her best to resist by whatever tactics she needs to keep her self "real" and not slip into the lies that he would have her believe. Been there done that. Will do whatever I have to including standing up on the chair and sticking my fingers in my ears and saying Na Na Na Na Boo Boo not to go there.(under their sick reign) I think it's a very good sign that you're questioning this counselor's approach. It sounds as if your mind is intact. |
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