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06/22/2008 08:58 PM

broken hearted girlfriend(page 2)

beenthere1

lola05,

All I'll say is GOOD FOR YOU! And good luck to you and your precious daughter!

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06/22/2008 09:02 PM
beenthere1

Paul,

At first I wasn't going to reply but kept thinking that a lot of people read these boards for insight, information, and advice. But "happily ever after" with bipolars isn't very common, so if others are helped and are spared the grief, anguish, pain, and misery that I endured for years then my time and effort was worth it.

I also kept thinking that I would've given anything for such a resource back when I first began dealing with the problems and complexities of having a bipolar mate, although when we met neither she nor I knew she was bipolar. A few times she did mention hearing "voices" but I thought she was kidding or using that as a humorous ploy for attention as some people do. But, nope, much later I found that she wasn't kidding. I had no experience with the bipolar disorder, I was "shooting in the dark" (or stumbling), and trying to cope with whatever arose while hoping for the best and not suspecting the sheer nightmares that were to come. I was alone in it and had no one to ask, and no Internet access. I had no idea where it might head or the abyss or psychotic terror that awaited me. I loved my ex and did my best with her and for her but, as with many bipolars, that was sorely insufficient because her condition kept advancing until every part of her life and mine was turned upside down. She became a rapid cycler to boot.

Please understand that I'm very glad that things worked out for you. You are indeed exceptionally lucky. Karen too. But, as you clearly stated, you are "the exception to the rule". Readers here should note that. And, as you know, there are different degrees of presentation for the bipolar disorder as well as varying levels of progression.

As to the other topics of my previous post that you disagreed with, I of course have no way of knowing the level or amount of experience you have with those topics. But I'll start with cheating. This is not an attack you. I simply disagree with your opinion and, without going into statistics, I stand by my general statement that "once a cheater, always a cheater". I've simply seen that countless times over the years by many people in all walks of life. They all have "reasons" or justifications too, ala "excitement", "not getting along with mate" and so forth. But watch them over time and you'll see a high number of them cheat again, even with a new spouse. Many do so regularly. There's a reason that there are Cheater's Anonymous groups, message boards, chatrooms, etc. In essence it's an addictive behavior.

Also, you said your "experience living with a bipolar wife has NOT been a 'roller coaster ride in Hell', quite the opposite, in fact". Again, Paul, you are lucky. But that and the "success stories" here or anywhere are fractional when compared to the norm. I truly wish that wasn't so. Perhaps you haven't read enough bipolar horror stories. Shattered lives, families torn apart, futures wrecked, finances ruined, suicides, injuries, drug and alcohol addiction, etc. Neither your story nor mine is precisely microcosmic, but mine falls into the norm category far more. Almost all bipolars have someone, or many, who love them and get put through hell at various points, if not an ongoing hell. That's the VERY NATURE of that illness: extended periods of deep depression, withdrawal, apathy, guilt, fatigue, loss of concentration, and suicidal thoughts (if not attempts). And then the manic side: euphoria, inflated self esteem and grandiosity, prolonged insomnia and high energy levels, hallucinations, pleasure seeking with no regard for the consequences or the feelings of others, irresponsible behavior, and various forms of impulsive and reckless pursuits of gratification including no-holds barred promiscuity. And, depending on several factors, those symptoms recur, i.e., not one time but many times. And the bipolar's loved ones get dragged right through all of it with them. And you wouldn't call that a "roller coaster ride in Hell" for those who care about a bipolar?

Further, I didn't know I'd have to defend my views when I posted so I mentioned only my ex and "two other similar situations". Fact is, there were quite a lot overall. In addition to those "two" there was also the former spouse of one of my cousins. And, in the effort to learn all I could so as to make my relationship work, I also talked extensively to a half dozen bipolars and several current or former mates of bipolars, as well as a therapist. I also read and researched an awful lot. The picture was consistent and alarming. I went into denial for a while. Through hell and high water I remained supportive of my ex and stayed in her life no matter what, long after others started leaving it including her own brothers. I genuinely loved her and was willing to take the bad with the good. I was the one who kept insisting that she see a psychiatrist. I monitored all her meds too (they have to take some exactly on the same hour each day). Zoloft, Paxil, Lithium, Prozac, Depakote, Fluphenazine, and on and on. And each time one med would lose effectiveness and a new one was started, bang, most or all the symptoms would manifest all over again during the changeover period. Most meds had unpleasant physical side effects too. Almost exclusively, no med works for very long. And, as some bipolars do, a few times she'd feel good for a while and behave normally so then she'd refuse her meds, thinking that she no longer needed them. That always led to yet another chapter of Hell On Earth.

Not to discount your experience which certainly was very hard, but it's apparently limited to one person and whatever your therapist said. I'm not sure what he meant about it wasn't Karen but that "someone else that had taken over her", but I am sure that almost all bipolars know exactly what they're doing in manic phases. THE differentiating factor is that they don't care who they hurt, use, upset, walk all over, or lie to. It's as if their conscience suddenly disappeared. I can also say that I felt as if my ex was someone else many times. That's scary. The sad, sick, twisted, hateful part of it is that in their normal mode most bipolars are wonderful people. They're bright, fun, creative, witty, charming, caring, cordial, and usually a delight to be around. My ex was all those things and more. Trying to deal with such conflicting characteristics and a bipolar's change-ups can eventually make a person nuts.

Btw, but I went through everything you mentioned regarding your wife in the first two years of the five and a half years that I spent with my ex. Then the "fun" really began, which made those first two years look like a day at the beach. Most people simply would not believe some of the things she said and did. I wouldn't have if I hadn't lived through it. Want to talk about cheating? Pal, toward the end I actually lost count. The particulars of her cheating were even worse and more shocking. Further, it just depended on which day it was as to whether she loved me or spewed venom all over me. Many times I never knew what to expect. Sometimes she changed moods with the wind. Then in her advanced stages she'd occasionally just disappear for days or weeks at a time and it was useless to ask her where she'd been. In her pleasant mode I heard the best words of love and commitment that anyone has ever heard. Her "other" mode brought the opposite. And, yes, sometimes she'd apologize but ALWAYS repeated whatever action she'd apologized for. Many bipolars learn to become master manipulators and are skilled at emotional backmail too. Regarding the overall relationship, I eventually likened it to trying to have a relationship with a wildcat on meth. To understate it, that's not something I'd recommend to anyone. I still have an occasional nightmare over it. But I will literally never be the same again - no drama there, just fact. It rendered me incapable of ever participating in a relationship again.

For what it's worth, I would've died for my ex if necessary, but I couldn't let her be the one who killed me and she eventually would have too, mentally and emotionally for sure, if not physically. For example, one night without any kind of provocation or warning she threatened to kill me with a firearm and I never knew why. Another time she went into another one of those instant rage modes as some bipolars do, cussed me up one side and down the other, accused me of all sorts of things, and then broke my foot and I'm a former college football player. Then she stormed off into the night. I'll never know why she did that either, nor will she. But all of that was quite mild by comparison to other things she did, things that slowly ate away at my mind and emotions, and my self esteem, until there was hardly nothing left of me inside. I still feel an abiding sense of guilt and failure because I hit a point where I just couldn't do it anymore. No one has ever loved another more than I loved my ex, deeply, dearly, and for always. It was such a joy to just hold her hand. I still love her. I always will. But I just couldn't do it anymore. It was never going to improve either. It's been several years and not a day goes by that I don't think about her. I will miss her forever.

Therefore, Paul, no offense intended and thank you for your candor, but frankly I have to say that your situation is an exception to the general rule and everyone should understand that.


06/22/2008 11:15 PM
AJJMH
AJJMH  
Posts: 17
Member

Sorry to hear your feeling forced to make a big decision and we all have our own experiences to try to share with you to help you along. Like Keepthefaith, I am in a successful relationship - only I am the bipolar person. My partner has been the best thing that has ever happened to me.

I have never cheated and never will - even when I am not doing well - I am ALWAYS aware that my actions will bring consequences and I don't want to loose my partner so I blow off and say what I need to at the time - rant and rave like an idiot at times even - but an affair is not even in the question.

Don't look to one's medical/mental health issues to be the cause of their faults. Some people just need to experience things before they can feel ready to settle down. You said yourself that he did not want to be a father - that alone tells me he was not ready for it and the affair could have been him testing the waters as a normal young man to see if he really liked you that much. That is not as big of a red flag for me (since you are not engaged or married) as the liar bit. I refuse to deal with a liar! There is no second chance, no third chance and no reason or excuse for it. If he can not tell you flat out - I made a mistake and I know that now, or I am not married to you and owe you nothing, or something else - then my opinion is that he really does not love or care for you or your feelings. This is not the type of person I want to be in a long term relationship with.

That is not to say you should give up on him forever. I think you should live your life and be happy for him no matter what he does. That is what a child wants is there parents to talk civilly. No one wants to see their parents argue each time they get together and doing so in front of the child will teach them that they are to blame. After all - you two would not be married or seeing each other at all if it weren't for the child (that is how kids think).

Raise the kid, demand he pay child support - that is his obligation. Even if it means going to court to get it - use that money only to help raise that child - not for things for you or others you know. If you don't need the money - put it into a savings for the child to go to college.

Live you life and do the best you can for you and the child. If something comes of the friendship you have with him down the road - then it was ment to be, if not - you will be better for as far along as you are and not living through him trying to find himself and grow up.

There is protection out there for you and the man if you are interested in having sexual encounters and BOTH PARTIES ARE NOT LOOKING TO HAVE A KID! Never count on just one. You could be on the pill and use a condom. Don't try to rope anyone into a relationship too fast as they will just freak out (even if they are not bipolar) and run the other direction. Be responsible and use more than one type of protection, and most of all take care of yourself and the child. Think about the child's future not just the next year or two. Start saving for college. That is the biggest aspect of being a parent that is overlooked. Show that child you care about their future, not just having them around now.

It sounds like you are young and even if you are 30 - 40 there is still plenty of time to be with someone. Learn to live alone and be a good parent then think about having a partner in life.

You can do it with the support of you family and friends. Good luck.


06/22/2008 11:52 PM
AJJMH
AJJMH  
Posts: 17
Member

I have to say that there are a good number of people with bipolar that are successful with their lives. Just because one person or a group of people do not know of any - does not mean it is not true. I to have a great life and partnership with the best woman in the world. I am bipolar - the difference between those who are successful and those you are not is that the successful people don't use the illness as an excuse for their actions, and don't ever imply that the illness made them do bad things.

I had a terrible life for years prior to my current partner, and I wanted to blame that on my childhood (that is still the going thing), then the bipolar creeped into the picture and I found another scapegoat. Then it became the illness' fault. Where somewhere along the line I realized that the only person I was not blaming was ME!

It is amazing how fast my life turned around when I stopped blaming others and the illness for all my problems. When I started assuming RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY ACTIONS AND DECISIONS not only did my life get better, but I was happier and felt better as a person. I realize this offends a great many people with bipolar as I am educating others to hold everyone accountable for their thoughts, decisions, and actions. I can not believe that in a society that can put a man on the moon, take an organ from one human body and put it in another allowing them to live longer, make a robot do the smallest of details on an assembly line - that we allow people to use the INSANITY Defense.

OF COURSE THEY ARE INSANE IF THEY HURT OTHERS OR KILL THEM! You would have to be insane to do that. Lock them up and throw away the key. I am not suggesting that people are not wrongly accused of things or that every person in jail/prison actually belongs there (that is a whole other issue) but my Gosh if someone admits to doing a crime (speaking of serious and harmful crimes to people/animals of course)- crazy or not - I don't want them ever getting out again.

I just think people tend to look for a persons weakness (illness, not well educated, etc) and use that as an excuse for anything that goes wrong. I can tell you one things for sure - IT TAKES 2. IT TAKES TWO TO MAKE A RELATIONSHIP AND IT TAKES TWO TO BREAK ONE. Maybe the one person just decided to get out after a series of bad events, but that does not make them free from responsibility. The marriage did not occur yesterday and the divorce today after only one bad night. There were likely years of failure to communicate on both sides, jumping into a relationship and marriage before truly knowing the other person and most all about them, etc. Why are people so in a rush to get married? Why can we live alone anymore and just be ok with that?

This is where the parent (who many of which are having kids way too young) are not able to adapt to being independent on their own, and have no ability to teach their children to do the same. Look at history - every generation - the parents are young when they have their first child, the number of high school drop outs increase, and the number of crimes committed increase. See any similarities?????

The fact is that there are those people who will take responsiblity for their thoughts, decisins, and actions; and there are those who will not. Certainly it is much easier not to, and our society does not have any consequences that are severe enough to change that, so we continue to read post after post about people who did things because they were bipolar - NOT BECAUSE THEY MADE A POOR DECISION!!!!! SIMPLY AMAZING!

Beenthere you even wrote: "A few times she did mention hearing "voices" but I thought she was kidding or using that as a humorous ploy for attention as some people do." That tells me that even if you thought it was a joke to get attentin, you made a conscious decision that you were ok with being with someone who needed that kind of attention. I wonder how long you knew this person before you married. Also while you are listing the things that people with bipolar suffer from don't forget to include ABANDONMENT. Did you get married in the good ole USA by a preacher or justice of the peace? I am betting you did and those vows have not changed in more years that you and I have been alive. Do you remember saying "for better or for worse"? If you did not mean it then you were not able to hold up to your end of the deal either which is no different than cheating. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You speak of the roller coasters that you went "through" with your spouse. I wonder how many different doctors you went to see with that person, and when things were bad, how many places you contacted for help. You know this illness has not been around for all that mnay years (that it was known) and therefore the research has not been done to make it a perfect science yet. I hear you went through the pain, but what did you do to help? Does not sound like the communication was there. Where you ever at fault for anything? The point here is not to attack anyone for anything, but to realize that there are as many success stories as there are failures - at least compared to any other illness, disease, crime, education rate, etc. There are many on both sides that do not go reported on websites like these. I have been successful for over 10 years and I just joined this site looking to spread the word of how it can be achieved.

It does take a lot of work on everyone's part. Not only the person with the illness, or the spouse, kids, friends, or medical staff - but everyone. If one person is not on board with trying to help - their life will be miserable. If anyone is not ready to put a lot of energy into the person you are dating or married to - THEN YOU SHOULD NOT BE MARRYING OR DATING THAT PERSON AS ANY GOOD RELATIONSHIP IS A LOT OF WORK. Noone, and I mean NOONE just meets someone and falls into a relationship where both parties agree 100% on everything, and the communication is automatically there, and the kids are wanted by both parties, the names are agreed on, the kids are raised and become successful people themselves without a lot of work. Like I say - it is all about responsibility and accountability!

Medicine is right in there with the old saying, "Close only counts in hand gernades, horseshoes" and you can add medicine. No exact science involved because we are all different, and all the same in some regard.


06/23/2008 05:52 AM
WARHORSE
WARHORSE  
Posts: 5057
VIP Member

Lola: You said it's been three months and he still isn't medicated or seeing a pdoc? You can forget about having a relationship with him until he takes responsibility for his own wellness. And you can take that to the bank!

06/23/2008 12:15 PM
NewDayDawning
NewDayDawningPosts: 170
Member

I tend to agree with those who express pessimism about the chances for success in a relationship in which someone has lied and cheated. Having been through this with my stbx bipolar husband, I regret all the "second chances" I gave him, and I am determined not to repeat this kind of experience with anyone in the future. Having said that, I do think recovery from such incidents is possible if there is sincere regret and remorse felt and expressed by the person who lied and/or cheated. However, it is very difficult to re-establish trust once it has been broken, and many couples understandably find it impossible to carry on after infidelity.

06/23/2008 12:20 PM
ThisBlows
ThisBlowsPosts: 1467
Senior Member

Paul,

You are truely a lucky man. My marrage (18 years) has been almost a copy of your, but now Im dealing with drug abuse and gamebling as well. My problem is that I find myself getting tired of the lies and her placing blame on me. Im woundering if I have wasted the last 18 years of my life, and how much I dont know about what really happened in our past. But thats me.

Im finding it very hard not to resent her. I wounder if I had know then, what I do now, if I would have stuck around.

Lol, did any of that make sense? I went off and started venting there lol.


06/23/2008 09:47 PM
beenthere1

<< All I am saying is that I disagree with the "all-inclusivness" of your statements. You make it sound like EVERY relationship between a BP and NON-BP will fail.>>

You said more than that and it sounds like more than that. It sounds like I touched a nerve.

<< You stated "Some here (or wherever you are) might say to "work with" your BF's condition, etc. Forget it. Best advice: RUN and never ever look back. ....

If I had taken advise like that, then I wouldn't have the wonderful, loving, FAITHFUL relationship I have with my wife I do now. And, my kids wouldn't have the great relationship they have with their mother now. Granted, I couldn't agree more that I am the exception to the rule, but the rule doesn't apply to EVERY case, which is how you paint it.>>

My advice was to lola05, not you, and it was not easily given. She sounded young enough to not only start over but also to not saddle herself down right off the bat with a liar and a cheater, let alone - and there's no gentle way to say this - a potential lifelong problem that could not only adversely affect her but her daughter as well. Whether BP or not, though, our mate should add to our life and not constantly chip away at it or drag it down.

<< You also state: "As to your BF's cheating, even if he wasn't bipolar and you give him a second chance that would only result in having to give him a third chance later, and a fourth, and a fifth, and so on. I have a lot of experience in life and can say that as a rule cheating is like rabies, once it's starts it's never cured."

What do you base this on? As a rule never cured?>>

I've already given my answer to that in my previous post. If you choose to obsess on it and make an issue of it then that's your problem. If you're sensitive to the topic because you yourself were cheated on then get over it, it happens far more than many realize. Or want to realize.

<< Is this just from your life experience, or are there studies that you can refer me to that state that a cheater is "never cured"? Please list them for me, as I would like to read them. A cheater doesn't have to always cheat, just like a drug user doesn't always have to use drugs, or a drinker always have to drink, or a smoker always have to smoke. People can change.>>

If you want studies and stats then do the work yourself. I'm not going to cater to you and do it for you, or serve them up on platter for your discretionary consumption and arbitrary dissection. Even if I did offer studies and stats you'd likely try to dispute them or declare them in error. Stay away from sharp objects, bunky, one of them might pop your bubble.

<< You also state: "It's an awful cycle (bipolar disorder) that never ends and a guaranteed roller coaster ride in Hell for anyone emotionally close to a bipolar."

Again, what is this assumption based on? Your life experience and a few people you know? Or are there studies showing that ALL relationships between a BP and NON-BP are a guarenteed roller-coaster ride in hell? Once again, please refer these studies to me as I would find them very inteeresting.>>

Apparently when something doesn't match up with your limited experience you capriciously label it as an assumption. Also, you obviously suffer from selective reading, among other things. I used terms like "most" and "many" but, again, if you want stats then stop trying to be an empirical armchair expert based on your one single experience and look them up yourself. Or you can continue to live in your fantasy world and criticize others who don't happen to share your constricted and highly personalized views. And who have had considerably more exposure to the problems caused by BPs.

<< I find you to be very narrow-minded and am offended by your assumptions, as they are contrary to my life experience. I KNOW that I am the exception to the rule, but the rule doesn't apply to everyone, like you imply.>>

Who the do you think you are, calling me narrow minded when you can't see past that "Karen and Paul" flag you keep hoisting up and waving? You, who contradicts himself by painting an isolated portrait of "success" and by saying that everything worked out just fine and there was only one trouble period, while also saying you "KNOW that you are the exception to the rule". What do you want, for everyone to bow down to your "one time" experience while you sit there and demand proof of dissimilar circumstances and opposite situations? As to your "life experience", you don't get around much do you. It does sound, though, as if you're used to strictly controlling your environment.

Further, it was quite unusual for you to claim that your wife was bipolar when you met, yet there were no major disruptive or dynamic manifestations for another nineteen years and that behavior period was mild by comparison. Nor did you bother to mention any meds, or if she was diagnosed as BP I or BP II, or had any secondary presentations, or even if she was evaluated via an MRSI. One might tend to wonder if you were merely spinning a fanciful fairy tale.

And you know what else? My original post was NOT addressed to you. You nosed in. And don't try to claim public forum privilege either because, regarding the issue to which I first posted, you didn't bother to address that issue with your glowy showy "success story", although you had THREE MONTHS in which to do so. And then you just couldn't rest until you made an immediate and confrontational second reply post. Makes one wonder if things are really as great and wonderful there at home as you proclaim. Seems that if they were then you wouldn't spend your time hanging around a relatively obscure BP message board (131 posts so far), let alone typing long replies. Sounds like you've found a home away from home, for some reason, which in itself is curious because you have enough to be concerned about whether you realize it or not. Ever hear of the Sword Of Damocles? Here's a clue: very sadly and most unfortunately, with "many" bipolars the past is prologue.

Note to bipolars reading this: I am not attacking you personally, so please save any personal replies. I truly sympathize with anyone suffering from that condition. I also genuiney wish that medical research would find a permanent cure. But my commiseration gets correlatively less when that illness is used as an excuse, or as an habitual shield or a Get Out Of Jail Free card.

Post edited by: beenthere1, at: 06/23/2008 21:48


06/24/2008 06:24 AM
ThisBlows
ThisBlowsPosts: 1467
Senior Member

I think its safe to say that everyones experience will be diffrent, and a lot of factors go into it. Also on this site, I think you will find more people with problems than with not. I base this assumption on the fact that if everything was going good for myself, then I wouldnt have bothered doing research to try to understand (if it aint broken, dont "fix" it right?).

Some of us have a low tollarence for BS (as I call the drama insues when my spouse had decided to stop taking her meds, my words, not anyone elses), others can take more and either havent eached their breaking point, or wont earch it. It also stands to reason that some people with BP know what the condition is and make an honest effort to control it, while others use it as an excuse for misbehavior (I've seen this in fellow soldiers and PTSD too).

So long story short (even its not that short lol), everyone is diffrent and handles these problems in a diffrent way.


06/24/2008 08:20 AM
ltfcrazy

Everyone IS different, but one thing I know for sure is that the only person I can change is me. That remains the same for EVERYONE! When I change myself for the better, everything around me gets better too. When I stopped fighting my wife and trying to prove myself right and her wrong, even if I was, she stopped having anyone to fight with. A person cannot fight with themselves for very long without realizing the insanity of it. If; however, I fight back, it gives her some ammo. and the cycle continues. Ending insanity is all about breaking the cycle. You cannot do the same things over and over and expect different results...that is the very definition of insanity. Some people need to remove themselves from the situation to break the cycle, others just need to stop talking. I found that for me...not talking works very well.
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