Adrenal Insufficiency Support Group

Hi everyone,

There is a chiropractor in my area, who claims she can get thyroid patients off of there meds, and treat anything associated with the thyroid. She states she goes over your medical history in detail, sends you for any lab work necessary, tests you for any allergies, and then treats all of this with botanicals, and supplements. She claims it is all an autoimmune disease, and she can stop the attack on the glands. My question to everyone, Is it possible to treat SAI, and or secondary hypothyroid this way? I understand if you are primary that the gland is just not working and the hormone must be replaced. Of course, I would love to treat everything naturally. I'm a bit optimistic though. I don't see many of you talk about any natural remedies. Let me know what you think. I don't want to get suckered into anything.

Thanks,

MJ29

I'd suggest secondary states no.. You aren't trying to rebuild a device that has bits that have been destroyed by "adding new ones". The pituitary is a measuring and controlling device and has a complex setup.

Try this car analogy. You can get "better/longer" performance by expanding out the fuel tank with a big hammer. You cant however make the fuel management computer work better by throwing more electronic components at it en mass.

I don't necessarily see the tag "natural" as good. To me it more means "impure". That implies that the body must be capable of getting rid of the junk. If your body is impaired that's likely to be more difficult. There are also some preps that are "meant" for a particular body location so why do we out it through the digestive system to get there? (Realizing that many mainstream drugs also do the same kind of thing!)

In that sense I think that natural remedies have far more complexity and risk than single targeted chemicals. It also means that the prescribing practitioner must be far better experienced. I would expect to see 10 times more specialties on the natural field for that reason.

But please get some more opinions! I'll get off the soap box now! <grin>

Bob

Hi Bob,

Thank you for your reply. I am open to natural remedies, but I agree that you have to be careful with them. I understand that sometimes they can help to suppress the immune system even more. Yeah, I'm pretty much with you on this one.

Tell me though, is the only cause of SAI, from the pituitary? I went to my PC today and asked her what was causing my SAI? I told her I think it is my pituitary. She said it was from stress. I had been referred to an endo who blew me off and said nothing was wrong with me. So now the endo, has my PC convinced of this. I did get her to refer me to another endo. My PC just recommended I take an adrenal supplement.Anyway, I won't get into all that right now. Just wondering if there is anything I can say to get them to test my pituitary? They just don't even want to go there.

Thanks again,

MJ29

Well by definition secondary means the fault is in the pituitary. What the actual cause is can be variable. Stress that creates too high levels of circulating cortisol can cause the pituitary to go "out of cal". A tumour pressing on the gland can also limit its output. You can also get autoimmune problems that slowly destroy it. There are bound to be a few other "reasons".

Well if you have low circulating cortisol levels and are symptomatic it says "AI". A negative stim test and medium to low ACTH means its not primary. Theoretically you could test for tertiary (CRH stim) but in the end the treatment is no different!

Hi Bob,

Well, I have low cortisol levels, but my levels did rise with the stim test. Not by much, so I know I have secondary. Right, whatever it is that caused it, they need to find out! I did have a lot of stress for a few years that I know did a toll on my body. Anyway, my doctor seems to think that secondary sort of cures itself? Is this true? I feel like I'm losing this battle.

Thanks again,

MJ29

I have to ask though, do they? I mean mine was never diagnosed with any certainty. A lot of medicine is like this. You can only ever find a more likely cause, never a finite one.

In fact its troubling that "reason" is often needed, but a lot of life just isnt like that. Like why did the chicken cross the road? The answer is "that's what chickens do!" <grin> Its human nature to link feelings of control to finite knowledge. It never seems to work well!

You cant "look" at the pit at the cellular level to discover the exact failure mechanism. You just have to kind of accept it. You do of course look for major external causes like tumours that may have later repercussions. ie manage it from now on because you'll never really find a real answer until postmortem! Do you really want a pit biopsy?

Some secondary "cures itself" some doesnt... At some stage you make a life choice to put up with the months or years of fatigue to repair it, or just dose replace for life. A doctor can only give you a statistical guess, not tailor it to your situation.

Bob

Personally I think this chiropractor is dangerous. Not all thyroid disorders are autoimmune problems. There are problems (like mine) that start in the pituitary (I have a cyst) and are completely unrelated to any nutritional or immune mechanism. I always cringe at medical professionals who paint a this-does-it-all approach, every case is different and every case needs a thorough diagnosis and targeted prescription.

Deb

Hi there mj ... I appreciate natural treatments for all sorts of illness & noticed your question, but my first reaction was the same as Deb's in thinking this chiropractor you've heard about is dangerous ! If she does actually claim that 'it is all an autoimmune disease' she is showing ignorance & not someone I would trust to help me. At best she misunderstands [which ideally she shouldn't when she's treating clients, but lots of docs & endos misunderstand too & they can be dangerous to our health ! ] At worse she is after more clients by making such sweeping statements & could do some of them serious harm. I have been in e-mail contact with another naturopath recently myself & I ended up writing some things to her that I am going to tell you ...

First though I want to say, that I spent some time scanning your threads to get an idea of what you're dealing with healthwise & I'm experiencing a lot of the same, as are so many people on here. This is a great place to share !! You might like to put some basic history on your profile, so that others can get to know about you more easily ? Someone said that to me a short while ago !

Okay then, this is what I told my naturopath : It seems there is an important need NOT to confuse Adrenal Insufficiency [from system failure] with Adrenal Exhaustion [sick & tired system]. People on the AI forum are talking about the 'adrenal supplement trap' that quite a few of them have fallen into ! This happens when an 'AI' Adrenally Insufficient person is given supplements that would help an 'AE' Adrenally Exhausted person. With the 'AI' person, there will be an initial improvement, but this is short-lived .. their dose may be increased to recover the improvement, but things go from bad to worse : [ The reason for this being that initially cortisol is raised as needed, but the sick pituitary which acts strangely [as if it is calibrated wrongly ! ] will again suppress the extra cortisol, just as it was acting to suppress cortisol in the first place.

I also said to her : There seems to be a 'double danger' thing going on ... where 'AI' people can be mistreated as 'AE' & also 'AE' people can be mistreated as 'AI'. In 'PAI' primary adrenal insufficiency it is the adrenals that are ill & in 'SAI' secondary adrenal insufficiency it is an ill pituitary. Hydrocortisone is the ONLY medication given for either illness at the moment, whereas there are many brilliant supplements to treat 'AE'. The problem for some of us is, which are we ?? I still don't know which I am. I have suspected 'AE' due to chronic stress years ago, but there is the possibility of 'AI' which would cause body stress anyway ! Also I am wondering if long-term 'AE' can turn into 'AI' system failure ? It's a puzzle to solve !!

Right mj, this is me talking to you again : ] At that point my naturopath no longer replied to me ! I don't want to offend anyone who doesn't deserve it, but it is confusing & some of us need to talk out the issues for our own sakes I think. It does seem that most people on this forum are here because their systems are failing or have failed. I believe Bob was absolutely right when he said to me that AI is not something you mess around with & I also credit him for putting me wise to some of what I said to my naturopath. I do hate the way that some naturopaths are giving such a bad reputation to natural remedies though : [ I still want to give my body the chance to recover naturally if it can ?? I'm looking for diagnosis to solve the 'AE or AI puzzle' I suppose, not to find out which totally absolutely kind of AI I might have ! Again as Bob says, that's sort of academic & doesn't make any difference to treatment.

Oh, to answer your first question, there are natural treatments for thyroid & adrenal sicknesses of course, but it depends what's wrong !!

Hi Moonbow,

Wow. It was like you were in my head. I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm with all of you on this. I think I was so desperate for a second, I almost made an appointment. I decided I can't waste any time and money hoping some herbs will make me feel better. I need to know exactly what is wrong with me, before I try any type of treatment. And, I need a doctor who will recognize SAI.

I really appreciate your insight. I hope you get your answers soon. And thanks for the tip, I will update my history.

Thanks,

MJ29

Thanks Moonbow for clarifying that for us. You are totally right about the problem distinguishing between adrenal exhaustion and true adrenal insufficiency.

Great to have so many minds "on the case" so to speak.

Deb